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Trying to get a good LIVE show tone.

Z

Zakary Tardy

Feb 26, 2020
1
0
#1
So most of the places I play have horrible setups and I can barely hear myself but from what I DO hear I always think it kinda sucks and gets lost in the mix.

I should start by saying the tone I'd like to go for is Nick O'Mally's Of Arctic Monkeys. Or the bassist of the Orwells if you know them. Whenever I play I get a lot of attack coming through. I know its b/c I use a pick but I know a lot of bassists who use a pick and it does not sound like mine. The way I could describe how it sounds is "clicky".

So for the gear, I use a P Bass (with flats and play with a pick mostly). I have an Ampeg BA-210 V2. I generally boost the bass a little to 6-7. Keep the Mid at 5. The Treble at 5-6.

As for pedals, I will use a Big Muff for fuzz. I use an EHX Bass preacher for compression. I really don't know how to use this pedal, to be honest. I just feel like when I use it I just get lost in the mix. But whenever it's a quiet part or only I am playing and I don't have the pedal on it sound kinda like "boomy". I hope that makes sense. I like to keep the attack switch on fast and the volume knob all the way up and the sustain knob at 3 O'clock. If anyone has any tips for this pedal please let me know.

So to finish off. If anyone has any tips or ways to try to get a better tone please let me know! Feel free to tell me it might just be me being bad at playing haha.
 
#2
So first things first, you're going to sound diffrent in diffrent rooms. Second things second you're going to sound diffrent in context with your band all of whom are going to sound diffrent in diffrent rooms. As such there's a limit to what you can do without being in the room and working with the sound tech. Which is not to say there's nothing you can do you just have to be mindful and not doing anything too extreme that doesn't leave the tech enough room to work.

On that note you also need to be mindful of where and how your being DI'd if you've got PA support. Often that'll be pre your heads EQ, or even pre your head entirely. That's useful in terms of being able to mangle your stage EQ to whatever you need without impacting FOH. But also obviously removes a lot of the "colour" you're used to from your amp. This is what makes pre-amp DI pedals so popular with bass players. You can send that pre-amp to FOH and not touch it during the show unless asked.

A high pass filter can be an easy win. Set to cut below your lowest fundamental frequency, around 40hz for a standard tuned 4 string, can do wonders because those are frequencies you just don't need. It means you get more from your amp/cab because they're not having to reproduce them, and it can make the low end a lot much punchy in a mix.

Compression is a more trick one. One of their main uses is being able to bring you up in the mix so the fact you feel your getting lost suggests your settings could use tweaking. Generally speaking, and I'm not expert, unless you're after a noticeably compressed squashed sound a light touch is best.

As such I'd try starting with the volume between noon and one as it's there for "make up gain" which is about compensating for over all volume loss from the compression. Then try the sustain between 11 and 1 with each of the diffrent attack settings and see what feels good for you. I think the problem you have currently is that you've got both a fast attack (how quickly the compressor kicks in) and a high sustain (how much/long the compressor compresses) your initial transients when you're hitting the string could be getting a bit swamped. This could be what leading to you feeling pushed back in the mix. But I'd also recommend searching the forum for the pedal and seeing if there's any one talking about how they use it.
 
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#4
First, before introducing anything additional into the signal chain, just use your bass and amp. Get a sound you like with the most minimal setup possible. Try using reductive EQ (only cutting) instead of boosting frequencies. If you need more low end from your combo, cut some highs and turn the overall volume up.

Second, as a bassist, you generally have the absolute worst vantage point about your tone when you're playing on stage. You may not be able to hear yourself (cab only comes up to your knees), but the folks 10 feet out are getting murdered with your volume. Different notes on your instrument are going to speak differently in different rooms/spaces. That's the nature of the beast.

How much low end are the other musicians in your band putting out? If they carve out sonic space for you, you'll be able to ear everyone easier.
 
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#8
I suggest (and what I would do) is pickup a tilt-back stand and Broughton HPF/LPF.

Get the stand so your cab is pointed at your ears and is disconnected from the stage.

The HPF to take care of cab mud and room boom. Try the HPF around 60-70. Let the kick have its sonic space.

The LPF is to take care of any clankyness and clickyness. Keep decreasing the frequency until it sounds like you want it to sound.

Broughton is also a boost. It may help overall tone.

The amp bass and treble tone controls will work a bit differently so you will probably have to change your settings some.

Keep the compression off until you get everything else set.

Go wireless or get a long cord so you hear how you sound in the mix. Adjust from there.

Report back here and let us know how it goes.:thumbsup:
 
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#9
Zakary Tardy said:
. . . I generally boost the bass a little to 6-7. Keep the Mid at 5. The Treble at 5-6.
Click to expand...

That's what's commonly referred to as a scouped tone. It sounds great when you play all by yourself but it's the worst EQ possible for sounding good in the mix. Made worse by using a P with flats.

Try this:

Bass knob at 3
Mid knob at 6 or 7
Treble knob at 4 or 5

I assume you like the P with flats because it has the tone quality you want to project so there is no reason to change that. But the EQ change is critical.

You'll probably hear your tone on stage sounding thin and wimpy. That's okay. It will sound good to the audience.

If you have the power to do so, make sure your guitarist rolls off his low frequencies so he isn't adding any mud to your overall band sound. Ideally, he should use a HPF set around no lower than 120Hz.
 
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#11
The Big Muff - does it have a clean blend on it? You are likely eating up all of your clean bass tone and lost a substantial amount of midrange when using it. That is probably the biggest reason why you cannot hear yourself. As others have suggested, bass into your rig first, then see where you are at tone wise. Add pedals to your setup one at a time and learn how to use them. Figure out what it does for you.
 
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#12
Your current tone is scooped. Sounds badass in your bedroom. Disappears in a live mix. Learn the religion of The Mids. Boost them. Boost them to a point where you question the bonehead on TB that suggested it. You will think you sound like azz^2. Then.... listen to your full band mix. See where you are sitting? It’s pretty nice. You may very well say ‘wow. Now I get it’.

bedroom and live band tone are two separate animals.
 
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#13
Search for isolated bass tracks on YouTube and listen with headphones. They will give you an idea of exactly how mid heavy you need to be to sit in the mix. You need to get those tones in your head, it takes time but once you get it you can get a decent tone in almost any situation.
 
#14
Lots of good recommendations, would add though to find out what the center freqs are for your amp EQ section. That will put you in a better position when dealing with different rooms. Certain notes will be more live or dead in a room and knowing the freq of the note, and of your eq will help you dial it in. Mostly I just leave my eq flat.

As far as compression, less is usually more, so try a ratio of 4 on down. For that particular pedal, see if they have some preset listed that is light compression. I would as other have stated, not set it till everything else is set properly. Your just looking to even the strokes out, not squish em'
 
#15
Zakary Tardy said:
So most of the places I play have horrible setups and I can barely hear myself but from what I DO hear I always think it kinda sucks and gets lost in the mix.

I should start by saying the tone I'd like to go for is Nick O'Mally's Of Arctic Monkeys. Or the bassist of the Orwells if you know them. Whenever I play I get a lot of attack coming through. I know its b/c I use a pick but I know a lot of bassists who use a pick and it does not sound like mine. The way I could describe how it sounds is "clicky".

So for the gear, I use a P Bass (with flats and play with a pick mostly). I have an Ampeg BA-210 V2. I generally boost the bass a little to 6-7. Keep the Mid at 5. The Treble at 5-6.

As for pedals, I will use a Big Muff for fuzz. I use an EHX Bass preacher for compression. I really don't know how to use this pedal, to be honest. I just feel like when I use it I just get lost in the mix. But whenever it's a quiet part or only I am playing and I don't have the pedal on it sound kinda like "boomy". I hope that makes sense. I like to keep the attack switch on fast and the volume knob all the way up and the sustain knob at 3 O'clock. If anyone has any tips for this pedal please let me know.

So to finish off. If anyone has any tips or ways to try to get a better tone please let me know! Feel free to tell me it might just be me being bad at playing haha.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I'm reading you right or if I'm backwards, but it reads to me like the gear and settings you're using now are working against your sound goals. Looking at your description up top of how it sounds is "clicky". Is that the sound of others who use a pick, the sound you're getting now, or the sound you're after?

The advice in post #12 above was right on. If things are boomy, leave your lows set flat (or slightly cut) and bump up your mids, especially when playing with the band. It might sound borderline obnoxious like that when practicing at home, but it should give you more clarity in the mix.

Some years ago, I got a quick lesson in the value of the mids when I switched from playing a Jazz bass at my gigs to a P/J with the P pickup solo'ed. The J bass had inherent mid scoop with both pickups full open and my drummer often asked me to turn up when playing that one, but the mids of the P/J brought a huge difference. My guitar player actually asked me to turn down - truly a first.

There are probably some happy mids in your P that are trying to come out with a few tweaks. If you've never experimented with some different strings, that might be a thought. Flats are great. I have nothing against them, but I don't use them myself. Nickel roundwounds are generally my go-to. If you're looking for more of a clicky sound with your picking, that might help.

I don't use a lot of compression, but one thing stood out; the attack switch on yours is set to "fast". It could be squashing the more aggressive attack of your picking set like that. Try it with a slower attack so that the "gonk" from your pick can get through before the gizmo evens everything out.

Maybe even consider just using your compressor more like a limiter with the threshold set rather high. That will let you play with a some touch, but keep things under control in case you clank on a string too hard. Also agree with the idea above - wait on the compressing until you get a useful tone sorted out.
 
#16
Honestly,

"I use an EHX Bass preacher for compression. I really don't know how to use this pedal, to be honest. I just feel like when I use it I just get lost in the mix"

I bet you a dollar you answered your own question
 

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