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Tube and Solid State

#41
In Hi-Fi, tube amplifiers in many cases sounds better. I am not saying that transistor amps sound bad, some of them are very good. I used to love current monsters like Krell for a hvile, but had to sell it. I have had several Rotel amplifiers and are now back to old quad tube amplifiers and a quicksilver preamp. In the most cases tube amps sound better then transistor amps. I have never owned a MacIntosh trasistor amp but i have heard one, matching transformers like a tube amp.

When ever i gets my hands on a PA-amp i always have to try it out with som of my hifi speakers to get an impression. One inexpensive old power amp i like is an older Ramsa power amp WP 9220. I now have a total of three of this amps. Unfortunately most newer PA-amplifiers are disipointing.

Perhaps i am wrong, but i can't help thinking that if it doesn't sound good, driving a set of high end hifi speakers. It's not going to sound good in a PA / bass amp setup .
 
#42
I actually just happened to have changed the tubes in my main touring amp today, a Fender 300pro. The same tubes have been working flawlessly in it for well over 10 years.

Most of the power tubes were factory stock (a tube was defective and burned out in the first year, admittedly). It still ran quiet and was plenty loud, but I'm in pre-production for a demanding winter tour in Canada & figured it couldn't hurt to change the tubes. But, I'd be willing to bet these 10+ year old 6550's would have worked just fine!

After reading this thread, I might even switch back to the old ones just to further prove the point that vacuum tubes are far more reliable, durable and gig-worthy than some would have others believe.
 
#43
scotch said:
Reading a book is one way to learn some things about tubes and tube amps. Another great way to learn about them is to own and use them for decades.

Tubes can, and often do last for decades and continue to sound great! Sorry SeaMonkey. It's just the way it is.

Heck, even fighter planes managed to utilise vacuum tubes in critical circuits. I think a bass amp application is a smidge less demanding.
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Can't own every amp out there. Can't say that experience with one or a few amps equates to every amp out there. The people who wrote the books on the link lived and breathed tubes. Collectively it says more.

Even the amp manufacturer manuals and recommendations disagree with you. Ampeg for one.

Fighter plane radar tubes are not audio tubes. And they had regular maintenance. Like after every landing. There's no modern military use for tubes used in audio.

This tube reliability argument comes down to the 90 day warranty manufacturers put on them. That says the most.
 
#44
All talk and no waveforms. Feed a sinewave into tube and solid state power amps, and measure the output waveforms with 10 - 20% overdrive. The differences should be obvious, and it would give all of us something that we could hang our hats on. For good measure, try various Class-AB and Class-D power amp sections found in popular bass heads.

Sadly, I don't have the gear necessary to make these measurements. But think how educational it would be for all of us.
 
#45
seamonkey said:
Can't own every amp out there. Can't say that experience with one or a few amps equates to every amp out there. The people who wrote the books on the link lived and breathed tubes. Collectively it says more.

Even the amp manufacturer manuals and recommendations disagree with you. Ampeg for one.

Fighter plane radar tubes are not audio tubes. And they had regular maintenance. Like after every landing. There's no modern military use for tubes used in audio.

This tube reliability argument comes down to the 90 day warranty manufacturers put on them. That says the most.
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Obviously I can't comment on every amp ever made. I do know that I play fueling amps with old tubes that sound great. I own them, rent them and see old tubes in use all over the world. Either I'm crazy, or tubes just last longer than the minimums that your publications suggest.

If I'm crazy, I'm ok with it though! These crazy old tubes sound darn inspiring! :-)
 
#46
fdeck said:
All talk and no waveforms. Feed a sinewave into tube and solid state power amps, and measure the output waveforms with 10 - 20% overdrive. The differences should be obvious, and it would give all of us something that we could hang our hats on. For good measure, try various Class-AB and Class-D power amp sections found in popular bass heads.

Sadly, I don't have the gear necessary to make these measurements. But think how educational it would be for all of us.
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That's something I'd like to hear.

Wait - they done it with modelers. They check them against the reference amp. Even null test them. They create the same waveform. :-)
 
#47
Caca de Kick said:
But oddly enough, SS amp players all around me buy up new heads every 4-5 years or so. Far more sooner and frequent than me ever wearing out a set of tubes.
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Then they need to find "their" sound in the first place. ;) The latest and "greatest" gear means nothing if you use ANY amp head to make up for poor technique. :D

I've been a tech for a really long time. Most repairs on tube or SS have been do to tweaking, error, support component failure or drift, neglect or from a supposed "tech" making them a mess. After that old age (we are talking decades here) requiring repairs common to either tube or SS. I don't think it is just my roots in saying that tube equipment is easier to repair? :)
 
#51
Tractorr said:
For me the way a tube feels is different than a solid state amps. I always feel I have to adjust my playing to make a solid state amp sound their best.
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I have the same experience. I was using a great tubey souding head- Mesa M-Pulse 600 but ultimately sold to get a Bass 400 again. I can't live without that sort of compression/saturation is has. I tried all kinds of tube pre's (actually, every real head I've owned had a tube pre... maybe aside from Ashdown MAG) and none of them break up the same way as a tube power section.

Go tube if you don't mind a little grit/rich sparkle. Go solid if you just want super clean sounds.

I thought the perceived volume of relatively lower tube watts had to do with production of even ordered harmonics. Less square-wavey breakup (eg Crate distortion) also... maybe?

Anyway... isn't this a played out conversation? I guess all the new people can throw in their 2 cents. :p
 
#53
seamonkey said:
That's something I'd like to hear.

Wait - they done it with modelers. They check them against the reference amp. Even null test them. They create the same waveform. :-)
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Yes, modeling does a great job of reproducing the waveforms of RECORDINGS OF TUBE AMPS. Totally unlike being in the same room with one and hearing it directly out of the speaker.
 
#54
JimmyM said:
Yes, modeling does a great job of reproducing the waveforms of RECORDINGS OF TUBE AMPS. Totally unlike being in the same room with one and hearing it directly out of the speaker.
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Modelling keeps getting better. But the methodology always seems to be skewed towards the listener instead of the player. I might not always be able to tell whether or not an amp is 'real' in a recording, but I sure as heck can tell whether I'm plugged into one when I'm making music! And that, imo, is a pretty HUGE difference!
 
#55
JimmyM said:
Yes, modeling does a great job of reproducing the waveforms of RECORDINGS OF TUBE AMPS. Totally unlike being in the same room with one and hearing it directly out of the speaker.
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Frankly I've never heard a modeled tube amp that sounds as good as the real thing, either a modeling amp or software plug in, and I've heard and used many as a mix engineer. It's just not the same.
 
#58
B-string said:
So, quick poll. How many saw the opening for rehashing the old Tube VS SS debates (even though the thread was titled Tube AND SS)?
I love the sound of my break snack sizzling over the output tubes, sounds so much better through the speakers too! :D
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A piece of balogna fried on a 6L6 makes for a delicious snack.

Hey, I've got both tube and ss and I like both and use both all the time. I'm also a fan of tube modeling and amps that do emulation now whereas 4 years ago I thought it was a joke. But tubes ain't in any danger of obsolescence in my lifetime.
 
#60
Caca de Kick said:
But oddly enough, SS amp players all around me buy up new heads every 4-5 years or so. Far more sooner and frequent than me ever wearing out a set of tubes.
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LOL, planned obsolesence stikes harder in that marketplace I guess and my guess is the depreciation is a lot higher than replacing tubes. I haven't owned a tube bass head for years but I've played a lot of SVT's and if they didn't weigh as much as a compact car I'd play one all the time.

Thanks God for tube preamps and SS power amps or I'd have needed back surgery long ago. Now I nice little 200w -400w SS fits the bill. It's not an SVT but it doesn't weigh over 200lbs either.

I still pefer a tube amp for guitar though.
 

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