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Tube booster pedal - is it a thing?
- Thread starter Phaidrus
- Start date
Sure, the EBS ValveDrive sounds great : I've bought one this year, for getting a tubey overdrive sound, works pretty well for that use case. And you can find it pretty easily in french stores : Woodbrass or Royez (where it's cheaper), just to name a few internet stores. Physically available in stores if you're near Paris.
More tubes are almost always better than fewer tubes IMHO, but the more preamps with tubes you run, the closer you are to diminishing returns.
That's not to say it won't sound better if you add a tube to what you have, though. But I'm not familiar with your gear and have no idea if it runs the tubes at normal plate voltages. Starved plate is better than no tube at all IMHO but it can definitely be improved on by a pre tube running at high enough voltage to do the thang. I tried to find info on your stuff but Markbass doesn't give you a lot to go on in their manuals. They very well might run their tubes full voltage, and at least they use real tubes instead of the little tiny tubes you have to solder into the circuit like the LM Tube amp.
Tough call.
That's not to say it won't sound better if you add a tube to what you have, though. But I'm not familiar with your gear and have no idea if it runs the tubes at normal plate voltages. Starved plate is better than no tube at all IMHO but it can definitely be improved on by a pre tube running at high enough voltage to do the thang. I tried to find info on your stuff but Markbass doesn't give you a lot to go on in their manuals. They very well might run their tubes full voltage, and at least they use real tubes instead of the little tiny tubes you have to solder into the circuit like the LM Tube amp.
Tough call.
This discovery does nothing for my GAS and my wallet.
I didn't know P&P and it's also in Europe, I've been trying to get something from Sushi Box or Broughton on the second-hand market for a while (I always got an HPF ON) but without much success and buying it in the USA directly makes it impossible for me due to customs, but with P&P in France it becomes an option, I don't think shipping to Spain will raise the price much.
They also have a tube Bass Preamp that seems very interesting to me and would fit more with what I'm looking for, I guess no one has tried it. Anyway, the demonstration video they posted is interesting.
Thanks for the discovery.
I didn't know P&P and it's also in Europe, I've been trying to get something from Sushi Box or Broughton on the second-hand market for a while (I always got an HPF ON) but without much success and buying it in the USA directly makes it impossible for me due to customs, but with P&P in France it becomes an option, I don't think shipping to Spain will raise the price much.
They also have a tube Bass Preamp that seems very interesting to me and would fit more with what I'm looking for, I guess no one has tried it. Anyway, the demonstration video they posted is interesting.
Thanks for the discovery.
In my experience, there are a few things that are associated with the magic/mojo that vacuum tubes induce.
However, there is a level of saturation for each. If you reach that, introducing more of these devices will not make it more better. Once the mojo meter is full, it'll not go any further.
However, the downsides of tube gear will stack.
Hum and hiss that can come with tube gear will increase.
However, there is a level of saturation for each. If you reach that, introducing more of these devices will not make it more better. Once the mojo meter is full, it'll not go any further.
However, the downsides of tube gear will stack.
Hum and hiss that can come with tube gear will increase.
You're welcome, their Bass Preamp sounds good! And looks well made. Probably it's more suited to my "needs" too.
EDIT: Shipping within the EU is €10 and there's a €25 discount currently.
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D
I don't think the Valvedrive is discontinued? Maybe just temporarily out of stock in many stores, like lots of musical equipment has been post-covid. The supply chains seems to be still struggling.
I've never tried the P&P pedal and I'm not familiar with that brand. I can only say that the EBS is a nice pedal for adding just a little bit of dirt/texture to your tone, although it can get slightly too "warm", bordering on muddy with some setups (especially when running it into an actual tube amp). Adjusting the gain to edge of of breakup, or SLIGHTLY above, is the "sweetspot" with the Valvedrive. At higher gain settings it get fizzy and doesn't sound very nice IMO. But I can say the same about all tube dirt pedals I've tried. Do NOT expect any tube pedal (or hybrid amp for that matter) to give you the tone of an all-tube amp with output tubes and transformers. I would even go as far as saying that some tube gear that's sold today only has a tube for marketing reasons, as a gimmick. A piece of gear doesn't necessarily give you what we generally think of as "the tube sound" just because there's a tube inside. The are other factors at play as well.
Tonally I actually find that a good digital modelling pedal/amp gets closer to a real tube amp than tube pedals or hybrid amps with only preamp tubes. But every single digital, simulated "tube" amp/pedal I've played has still been totally missing the dynamics/feel and "heft" of a real tube amp.
The problem with real tube amps is of course that they are generally expensive. The ones that are powerful enough for bass guitar can also be quite heavy. But bargains can be found. Like I always say in situations like this: LOTS of 60s/70s tube amps that weren't specifically sold as "bass" amps can actually be superb bass amps. As long as it's 100w MINIMUM it could be a great bass amp even though it was originally sold as a guitar, PA or "all purpose" amp. The PA and "all purpose" models are often far less expensive that their respective guitar/bass models. And if you dig a little deeper than the most famous brands you can find excellent vintage tube amps for much lower prices.
Based on the posts in this thread, I'm guessing you are located in France? Maybe you could check out the used market for French tube guitar amps from the 60s/70s? I'm not familiar with any French guitar amp manufacturers from that era but I'm sure there must have been several. The lesser known the brand, the better (=most likely cheaper!). I know Selmer of course, but their guitar amps were manufactured by Selmer UK. Still, with Selmer being a French company, maybe there's a good market for used, vintage Selmer amps in your area? A 100w Treble'n'Bass should be an AMAZING bass amp! Maybe a tiny bit underpowered by todays standard but with a good, modern bass cab it should be sufficient for most situations and actually give you "the tube sound". I've got a 50w Treble'n'Bass MkI and it's one of my favourite amps ever. 50w isn't enough for rehearsals with a loud band but it's an absolutely superb amp for recording. I've often though about picking up a 100w version too (although I don't think they released a 100 watter until the Mk3 models).
The one thing to be aware of when buying 50 year old amps is their condition. It the amp has been well maintained it will probably still outlive most amps manufactured today, as long as it's properly maintained. But some vintage tube amps are unfortunately junk at this stage. And just because it's a tube amp from the 60s/70s doesn't necessarily mean it's a great amp. Some were rather poor. But with all the information you can find online it should be possible to weed out the poor brands/models.
Then again, Markbass make excellent amps so perhaps the best solution is to simply enjoy your existing setup (which I'm pretty sure must sound GREAT) and skip the rabbit hole entirely.
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I'm skeptical of tube pedals running at 9V, especially when they have a window or cutout so you can see the tube and the tube is lit by an LED to make it look like it is glowing.
D
Those "little tiny tubes" you are referring to, more commonly known as subminiature tubes, are very much real tubes. They can in fact offer some advantages over miniature tubes (like 12AX7) such as lower microphonics. Subminiature tubes are often used in tube mics (including some rather expensive high-end models) and even some effect pedals. Some of Effectrode's pedals being are an example of the latter. There's nothing wrong with subminiature tubes per se.
Of course you won't be able to do any tube rolling when the tube is soldered into the circuit, but in my opinion this isn't really a huge issue as I personally find the effect of tube rolling much smaller with modern amps like these, than with vintage "old school" tube amps.
Another advantage is that the supply of subminiature NOS tubes is still quite good, which means you can still find large enough quantities to use high quality, rugged, mil-spec tubes from the golden age of tube manufacturing in products like these Markbass LM Tube amps. Tubes like that will last a lifetime!
With amps using miniature tubes (like 12AX7, 12AT7, etc.) you can forget about using high quality NOS tubes for production of this scale. Which means you're stuck with the inferior tubes that are manufactured today. You can of course replace the stock tubes with NOS tubes yourself, but most of the NOS tubes that are commonly used in guitar amps have gotten very expensive, particularly 12AX7s. And most of the ones you will find for sale these days aren't really NOS at all but USED tubes sold as "NOS" for insane prices.
If there's anything less "tubey" about these Markbass amps it's simply because they don't have output tubes and transformers, like all modern hybrid amps. And POSSIBLY that they don't run the tubes at full voltages, but I have no idea if this is really the case.
I think that depends on how you are defining "improve". What are you hoping to accomplish specifically?
It sounds like you need the GK Fusion S. The clean channel has a tube as well. They use 3 12Ax7s
Currently I am using a Sushi for gigs. His circuitry raises the voltage to over 200 v+ just like in an amp. It does make a difference and not like a regular boost pedal.
I also have a Frenzel handwired with a choke and a 1 watt speaker out. Plus a Demeter VTB but those are a pain to carry to a gig. To my ears what is closest to a power tube/transformer grind is the Frenzel I put the speaker out into a Warm DI and the XLR output into an AI amp that takes XLR. But that's about 600 and you may not like it or even hear the difference. I do have a Mesa 400 all tube and also owned an SVT-CL, Mesa D-180 so I have that to compare.
The 6SL7 Octal preamps were a $75 upgrade. The 3rd one functions as a power tube. A poor man's Jule
See reply below for pics
View attachment 5332682
Currently I am using a Sushi for gigs. His circuitry raises the voltage to over 200 v+ just like in an amp. It does make a difference and not like a regular boost pedal.
I also have a Frenzel handwired with a choke and a 1 watt speaker out. Plus a Demeter VTB but those are a pain to carry to a gig. To my ears what is closest to a power tube/transformer grind is the Frenzel I put the speaker out into a Warm DI and the XLR output into an AI amp that takes XLR. But that's about 600 and you may not like it or even hear the difference. I do have a Mesa 400 all tube and also owned an SVT-CL, Mesa D-180 so I have that to compare.
The 6SL7 Octal preamps were a $75 upgrade. The 3rd one functions as a power tube. A poor man's Jule
See reply below for pics
View attachment 5332682
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It sounds like you need the GK Fusion S. The clean channel has a tube as well. They use 3 12Ax7s
Currently I am using a Sushi for gigs. His circuitry raises the voltage to over 200 v+ just like in an amp. It does make a difference and not like a regular boost pedal.
I also have a Frenzel handwired with a choke and a 1 watt speaker out. Plus a Demeter VTB but those are a pain to carry to a gig. To my ears what is closest to a power tube/transformer grind is the Frenzel I put the speaker out into a Warm DI and the XLR output into an AI amp that takes XLR. But that's about 600 and you may not like it or even hear the difference. I do have a Mesa 400 all tube and also owned an SVT-CL, Mesa D-180 so I have that to compare.
The 6SL7 Octal preamps were a $75 upgrade. The 3rd one functions as a power tube. A poor man's Jule
I suppose this SVTesque combination of warmth and grit. Already getting some (just a little bit) with my current setup, just curious whether I could get some more.
Gotcha. I haven't had success doing that with a pedal, but there are digital solutions that people say will get you close. IMO it is very hard to get in the tube amp ballpark with any kind of pedal or preamp solution (short of modeling) as the magic is in a tube power amp.
Your mileage may vary, so you'll probably just have to give it a shot and see if you like what you're getting.
All in all, perhaps I should start saving for an SVT-CL.
