Tube power amps

[ihaveaquestion]

This thread assumes that tubes sound better than the current crop of SS gear both pre and power. IMHO they sound different but not necessarily better.

No, you misunderstood it, i'm just seeking opinions from those who think they sound better already, to know what they are talking about when they say tubes are better

 

[40Hz]

This thread assumes that tubes sound better than the current crop of SS gear both pre and power. IMHO they sound different but not necessarily better.

“Better” is always a relative call.

 

[Rockbobmel]

My perception was formed right here on Talkbass. I think you and I are among just a few members who rave about how great an all tube amp sounds clean.

I’m with you on this. Long ago I heard that tube amps do clean better than SS. That was prolly true when I heard that and not true anymore but it stuck.

 

[92aceshigh]

This thread assumes that tubes sound better than the current crop of SS gear both pre and power. IMHO they sound different but not necessarily better.

This x 100

Poll needs a 5th option. "Topology doesn't matter for pre or power section."

 

[ihaveaquestion]

I'm not a troll pushing the "tubes are better" idea. I don't even have a tube amp. Here's a thread about my grandfather's single tube preamp combo, where i didn't even know how an amp behaves when a tube need to be changed:

Is the solution to change the tube?

As pointed in the first page, discussions about tubes vs. solid state pop up all the time, even if the thread subject is another one totally different. But i've never seen a detailed discussion about preamp tubes only vs. tubed power amps, and thus i didn't know what the consensus is about what the tube fans are talking about.

If you wonder about the trolling nature of a thread, instead of name calling, you can just not feed the troll. Or give the benefit of the doubt and let the mods do their work in case the OP is trolling

 

[ihaveaquestion]

This x 100

Poll needs a 5th option. "Topology doesn't matter for pre or power section."

The post #21 answers why i left that option out

 

[Jim C]

Another for I like my bass amps clean!
An SVT set for a clean tone through a Berg HT322 is a beautiful thing.
There is a 3-D quality that I can get with this rig that is just a little different than a SS head.

And that's the difference.
They are different not better or worse, just different.
Ultimately, replacement tube quality could be the demise of tube amps in the future IMO.

 

[coreyfyfe]

This thread assumes that tubes sound better than the current crop of SS gear both pre and power. IMHO they sound different but not necessarily better.

Horses for courses, of course.

For my electric gigs, I mostly play all tube amps. I don't think I've done my gigs lately where I could get away with running my tube amps full tilt, always use a pedal for that, but still the interaction between the bass, amp, and speaker has a much different feel to me than with a solid state and I prefer that. You're playing the amp as much as you're playing the instrument. I've had hybrids, I've had old and new solid state. They have their place. I use a class D on all my DB gigs and occasional electric gigs. Depends on the situation. Very different sound.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

That seems bit counterintuitive .

Counterintuitive? Not at all. My approach to a tube amp is the same as my approach to an acoustic instrument. Past a certain volume level the nuance and subtlety that attracted me starts to drop off steeply.

 

[GrapeBass]

Tube power amps choice is a matter of taste. That mean you should be happy with those type of tone cause are not as versatile as SS amps are in terms of bass response. Why is happen that ? Cause tubes power stages have a very poor characteristic of what is called damping factor. In other words are not able to manage very well speakers in low frequency range. So the choice for speakers it is very restricted, the choice for tones is very restricted and generally need to learn to play it. That did not meant cannot have great tones but have to look for that tone which generally is considered odd enough for modern bass.

One reason I love my 'rotary' resonance control on my Traynor YBA200 is that it adjusts the 'damping factor' much more than a switch (Ampeg STV & Traynor YBA300).

 

[Passinwind]

Counterintuitive? Not at all. My approach to a tube amp is the same as my approach to an acoustic instrument. Past a certain volume level the nuance and subtlety that attracted me starts to drop off steeply.

I hear you there Jeff. It's a big part of why I generally tend to prefer a very high powered SS power amp, so I can stay away from the sort of "touch sensitivity" that so many people enjoy from tube power sections. To put it another way, I don't dig in much on bass guitar, but when I do all I want out of that on the amp side is "louder."

But since I'm not gigging anymore, I plan to build a series of moderate wattage tube amps that'll run the gamut from noise toy to uber clean. I've been stockpiling parts for a few years and it should be fun going to that from the battery powered widgets I've mostly been working on for the last few years. I won't keep 'em all, or maybe even any of them. But I probably won't sell any either.

 

[Passinwind]

The post #21 answers why i left that option out

Please put that info in your original post, it was not at all clear IMHO.

 

[Guitalia]

Turns out I like SVTs just fine, but I am not an 810E man. That's not to say they are not awesome cabs, I am just into speakers with more of an extended frequency response. It actually took years for me to figure this out. The articles I had read before ordering my SVT all claimed the 810 had great high frequency response. Since my amp was an MTI which looked a bit different than the amps I had seen in magazines, I first thought maybe it was counterfeit, or that something was wrong with it. But I have played many Ampeg SVTs with 810s since then and that is just the way the cabs sound. You might think they are the best cab ever, and you would be right (for you, but not me).

Exactly. That matches my experience---I've found that my choice of speaker cabinet has a far greater effect on all aspects of my bass tone than the amp head topology does.

 

[catalin gramada]

Those controls called resonance,presence variable nfb or whatever regulate the Q factor of a amp in microscopic amounts relative to a SS. There are very useful instruments for voicing nothing more. You cannot beat the nature of tube amp technology.
I love tube amps, I have some and also build in my free time. There are great instruments but extremy limited when we talk about bass. Better use a preamp to do the tone and a very linear AB class SS power stage who can manage any speaker You want. Making the tone by tube power stage is something belongs to guitar guys.

 

[Mugre]

Sure you can get some "gak" out of pre-amp tubes but the real mojo is in the tube power section whether it's clean or dirty.

That said, it's also true that it's a lot to carry for a difference that may not really matter to anyone else but you.

Mugre

 

[The_Owl]

IMO, as a newly converted tube amp addict, the output section is what matters the most in an all tube amp. I've had many amps with tube preamps but SS or CD output sections, and they don't have the same qualities (IMO, YMMV etc) as an all tube amp, especially high wattage ones.

 

[Polka1]

My perception was formed right here on Talkbass. I think you and I are among just a few members who rave about how great an all tube amp sounds clean.

It should be noted (again, perhaps, as you went over it in your other post) that there can be quite a large area between absolute clean and dirty - especially with harder tubes and when the power section is cranked. With many setups there is a zone of tube compression and sweetness before any significant dirt kicks in. I think this is partially where the "warmth" tag comes in, because it fattens the bottom and takes the edge off the top quite effectively.

 

[Pilgrim]

How dare you call me a troll? What you answered is in the poll, the option that only preamps matter. I didn't say one setup sounds better than another, you are overreacting

A thread of "tube amp vs. everything else" happens about once a week here, hence my comment. Asking something for the 500th time is essentially trolling - or boring.

And preamps aren't the only thing that matter. Weight matters. Size matters. Connection ports matter. Design matters. So IMO the poll does not include enough options.

 

[ihaveaquestion]

Well, since a thread of "tube amp vs. everything else" happens about once a week here, I stand by my statement. Asking something for the 500th time is essentially trolling - or boring. Take your pick.

And preamps aren't the only thing that matter. Weight matters. Size matters. Connection ports matter. Design matters. So no, the poll does not include enough options. The world isn't that simple.

I think the post #25 explains why i'm not trolling

 

[bucephylus]

Didn’t see the option in your poll; but, I would come in as agnostic on the question.

Guess I see things this way. If a player likes an overdriven power section, a la early Jack Casady, then only a tube power section will do. Or perhaps these days, a modeler.

But, for those of us who spent the days playing when only tube amps were generally around, and who worked to keep it clean; well honestly the clean high power solid state amps were just fine.

I never used power section distortion as part of my palette. So, while I completely adore the SVT running in clean mode, I’m also more than good with a tube preamp driving a clean solid state power section. As long as it’s clean and slams, it’s good. There are both tube and solid state power sections that get that thing done.

That said, the SVT does have a specific personality that I can easily see some players preferring.

OTOH, I’ve been more than pleased by my hybrid setups over the years, as long as I’ve got a great preamp, such as the Alembic or Demeter, feeding into a potent solid state chassis. Since those are an easier schlep with no sacrifice of the tones I prefer, that’s been my choice.

YMMV