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Tube preamp vs tube amp

M

Moltenoxide

Feb 18, 2021
1
0
#1
Hey guys!
Pretty new to bass but I have a history playing guitar. Recently started playing bass for a band and it’s been great however I’m looking at upgrading some gear. running a jazz bass through my pedal board (eq, fuzz, big muff, phaser, tuner) to an orange little bass thing and Aguilar 4x10 cab. The orange head sounds alright but it’s not doing it for me.

My question is, should I invest in an all tube head such as a bassman, 100t or if anyone has some good suggestions or continue using my orange but just as the power amp and get a decent tube preamp such as something verellen (meatsmoke) or noble, two notes lebass and such.
Sound wise I play in a psych rock band, kinda aiming for a vintage 70’s-80’s sound with some capability for effects.
Cheers dudes! (Also located in Australia so gear isn’t as easily attainable here)
 
#2
Some things to consider, an all tube head isn’t necessarily going to sound better. And a tube preamp doesn’t necessarily sound better. And, an all tube amp is really heavy. I have a Fender Super Bassman Pro 300 watt tube amp but don’t like it nearly as much as my Hartke LH1000 solid state with a Tube pre-amp. To me, the Hartke gets much lower lows and higher highs. It can maintain a cleaner sound at a louder volume. And, it’s about 40 pounds lbs vs 80. That being said, I’m sure there are others who love the Super Bassman. Really depends on what you’re going for.
 
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#3
IMHO tubey deliciousness has wide variety of characteristics and different people tend to hone in on the characteristics they like.

Many of the faithful all-tube clan claim the biggest part of tubey deliciousness is in the output section. Specifically when a tube output section is pushed it tends to thicken up, compress, and then break over into OD.

It's important to understand that not all tube output sections are the same though. For example I have some Hiwatt and Hiwatt-style amps that really seem to fight to make every clean watt of power they can make. IMHO they are not the best choice if you want to push them totally over the edge, but they make really great pedal platforms.

One of the best amps I have for output drive is an old Matamp GT120. It's non-master amp with a low gain preamp. As you turn it up the output section gently transitions into drive. The transition seem to happen pretty much evenly across the range of the bass as well. In other words, it goes into distortion at about the same volume for low notes as it does for high notes. Also you can push it pretty deep into distortion and the lows don't loose focus and mush out.

Whether you need an all-tube amp is not an easy question to answer. Part of the vintage sound also comes from running vintage style speakers. I have a Greenboy Dually loaded with Faital 15PR400s and IMHO this cab sound super vintage to my ears. The notes seem to sort of bloom out of the cab instead of punching.

The bass, cab, and amp work together as a system. If one of the three doesn't get along with the other two the resultant sound will not be ideal.

My first bass was a Ric 4001. The first bass rig I bought was a brand new MTI era Ampeg SVT and 810. I bought the rig on reputation after reading a bunch of articles as I had never actually seen or heard one in person. I had the rig special ordered. Unfortunately when it came in I thought it sounded awful with my Ric. I have to admit it sounded a lot better with a Fender P Bass, but I did not own one of those. Also plenty of people think Rics sound fine through this rig, but it was not the sound I wanted.

Hopefully you see my point: You may have to play a bunch of basses, cabs, and amps before you find the combination you really like. Also, while doing research is useful and informative, ultimately the decision really falls to you and your personal preferences. Don't let anyone take that away from you and tell you what to buy. Instead, play a bunch of gear, and buy what you like.
 
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#5
I’m generally a tube fan, but I just love my solid state GK 800RB so it’s not an absolute.

My only experience with hybrids is with the SVT III pro that was supplied backline a couple time. I found it enjoyable and would recommend trying one.

A 100 watt tube amp (Fender 100t, Ampeg V4b) might not have enough power for you. I don’t know what your needs are volume wise. They’re generally pretty loud but run out of headroom, but some folks find that desirable.
 
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#6
I've owned 6 all-tube heads - and still use one. All of them have given me some blissful tone nights, along with various headaches - and sometimes backaches.
IME solid state power is more predictable, less temperamental. For some gigs I actually prefer to go that route for reasons practical and sonic. (Seems to pair better with the modern/active/roundwound vibe.)
But on the right occasion (for me a passive bass w/ flats, an efficient cab w/ the tweeter disabled and the rest of the band well matched to the power section) there's just nothing like all-tube.
But a good tube preamp can get you at least part of the way there. For loud stuff, I have been pretty happy with my Ampeg tube pre and a QSC power amp.
 
#8
I own two fabulous Ampeg all-tube heads. I gigged with one of them a lot when I was younger. Now I mostly play through them in my studio or sometimes I will haul one over to our practice place and leave it there. I also have a SWR Redhead that has a tube preamp. I use that more often on gigs.

If I were ever to start gigging more frequently, I would get a nice, small, powerful and LIGHT class D amp and carry it around in my gear bag. You can't really discount the portability and loudness of modern gear. A lot of the nuances in sound that you get in a tube amp get muddied up in a loud live gig anyway.
 
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#9
Basslice said:
I own two fabulous Ampeg all-tube heads. I gigged with one of them a lot when I was younger. Now I mostly play through them in my studio or sometimes I will haul one over to our practice place and leave it there. I also have a SWR Redhead that has a tube preamp. I use that more often on gigs.

If I were ever to start gigging more frequently, I would get a nice, small, powerful and LIGHT class D amp and carry it around in my gear bag. You can't really discount the portability and loudness of modern gear. A lot of the nuances in sound that you get in a tube amp get muddied up in a loud live gig anyway.
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I don't particularly agree with that. Doesn't mean I don't sometimes use SS, but I can always tell the difference in the PA.
 
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#10
JimmyM said:
I don't particularly agree with that. Doesn't mean I don't sometimes use SS, but I can always tell the difference in the PA.
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Just saying @JimmyM. The last 4 years our band uses two Bose tower modules for guitars, bass, drums and vocals and it sounds great and I don't have to haul anything around. No guitar amps, no bass amps, and NO MONITORS!
 
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#11
There are pronounced colorful harmonics that some SS have that are what I favor in tubes. Polytones and Glockenklangs for example.

Rather than distortion from tubes I want that push and pull that feels syrupy. Other components can provide the tight punch that SS gives EB in performance. So I get both.

Some tube preamps in heads don’t add that much. Some do like the tube pre in an SWR BBII and to a lesser extent to me in later SWRs. The tube sound of rich phat like a Fender Showman in 3 for me is amazing. The Phat of vintage Sunns when not driven to Mountain distortion are my fave. Like the SS Acoustic 360/361 the cab of a Sunn with JBL/Altecs is a part of that warmth. The Ampeg B-15 is also rich because of its cab.
The grit of an SVT head is not my fave. However the grit adds in the mix a perfect place for itself. I prefer the hifi richness of old McIntosh tube amps.
Now the one thing that gets there for me in the Monique. It sounds like power tubes. It’s got to be the design but it can get you there recording or into a SS arrangement.

Again IMHO YMMV. Our tone goals may differ. OTGMD. :)
 
#13
Moltenoxide said:
Hey guys!
Pretty new to bass but I have a history playing guitar. Recently started playing bass for a band and it’s been great however I’m looking at upgrading some gear. running a jazz bass through my pedal board (eq, fuzz, big muff, phaser, tuner) to an orange little bass thing and Aguilar 4x10 cab. The orange head sounds alright but it’s not doing it for me.

My question is, should I invest in an all tube head such as a bassman, 100t or if anyone has some good suggestions or continue using my orange but just as the power amp and get a decent tube preamp such as something verellen (meatsmoke) or noble, two notes lebass and such.
Sound wise I play in a psych rock band, kinda aiming for a vintage 70’s-80’s sound with some capability for effects.
Cheers dudes! (Also located in Australia so gear isn’t as easily attainable here)
Click to expand...
IME and IMHO you should try your 410 cab with an Ampeg PF50T head.
It's light and all tube and you can feed the pa your sound with both the preamp and power amp tubes!
This tranny out function has put a big smile on the faces of all the sound guys I've worked with.
It is not the most powerful amp though with 50 Watts.
BUT you can use the Orange as a power amp with the PF50T and have it both ways

I hope this doesn't sound too confusing.
 

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