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Tube vs. Solid-State Amps

#5
ezstep said:
I honestly do not think tube amps are less reliable.

Both have their pro's and con's. I have owned both, and currently have two fully ss, and two hybrids (tube pre- and ss power).
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Yeah, I totally get that! Reliability can definitely depend more on the specific model and how well it’s built/maintained rather than just being tube vs. solid-state. I like your setup, having a mix of fully SS and hybrids seems like the best of both worlds. Do you notice a big tonal difference between your hybrids and full tube amps in practice?
 
#7
Reedi said:
Which camp are you in: tube warmth or solid-state reliability? What made you choose your main amp, and would you ever switch?
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These days it a hybrid tubesolidstate warmth and reliability amp. Over the decades I have had a lot of all types of amp (except those digital amps I keep reading about :roflmao:).
 
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#9
All seriousness aside, I switched to lower-powered tube amps exclusively 13 years ago when I got a Bassman 100T (100/25 watts switchable) and 7 years ago added an Ampeg PF-50T (50 watts). Originally playing cover rock, now for 10 years barrel-house blues. I specifically went lower powered so the power tubes can be pushed just shy of saturation and breakup at reasonable volumes. I say the magic of an all-tube amp is 20% or less from the preamp tubes, 80% and more is from the power tubes. The power amp section of the tube amp is where you get the "sag", or self compression, that tube lovers dig. In a well designed tube amp the sag can rival a studio compressor in quality but reacts much more organically than a hardware compressor. Forget about a pedal compressor even approaching it. Aside from the sag, the amount of harmonics the power tubes start generating as they approach breakup is glorious. And again in a well designed tube amp you get a very satisfying bark, grunt or growl (depending on the amp) when it does breakup, not a raggedy f*rt as from a solid state amp. In order to get to this point with a 300 watt SVT or Super Bassman, you'll be melting faces if you're in anything but a very large room, hopefully it'll be outdoors. Both my tube amps have post-output transformer DI's, which is post-power tubes with cab modeling, so you get all the power tube glory to FOH, or recording interface, without having to mic the cab. Tube overdrive/distortion/preamp pedals, or tube preamps in hybrid amps, do not at all deliver the sound of an all-tube amp. Maybe a good sound and a sound you like, but it does not have the properties of the tube power amp. Preamp tubes can exhibit their own amount of self-compression, but In the power section it's the result of other factors outside the power tubes and it's the interplay of those that make it much more organic and amorphous.
A few weeks ago Mesa released the new Subway BD-800, with a tube preamp and digital modeling in the class D solid state amp that emulates their classic 400+ tube amp. I liked what I read and got one of these. Although it'll never replace my tube rigs, it acts more like a tube amp than any hybrid I've ever played. I'll more than happily use it on gigs with difficult load in/out or gigs requiring lots of stage volume, the BD-800 being 800 watts. Really never thought I'd play solid state again, but I like this Mesa amp very much.
 
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#10
Freight Train said:
All seriousness aside, I switched to lower-powered tube amps exclusively 13 years ago when I got a Bassman 100T (100/25 watts switchable) and 7 years ago added an Ampeg PF-50T (50 watts). Originally playing cover rock, now for 10 years barrel-house blues. I specifically went lower powered so the power tubes can be pushed just shy of saturation and breakup at reasonable volumes. I say the magic of an all-tube amp is 20% or less from the preamp tubes, 80% and more is from the power tubes. The power amp section of the tube amp is where you get the "sag", or self compression, that tube lovers dig. In a well designed tube amp the sag can rival a studio compressor in quality but reacts much more organically than a hardware compressor. Forget about a pedal compressor even approaching it. Aside from the sag, the amount of harmonics the power tubes start generating as they approach breakup is glorious. And again in a well designed tube amp you get a very satisfying bark, grunt or growl (depending on the amp) when it does breakup, not a raggedy f*rt as from a solid state amp. In order to get to this point with a 300 watt SVT or Super Bassman, you'll be melting faces if you're in anything but a large room, hopefully it'll be outdoors. Both my tube amps have post-output transformer DI's, which is post-power tubes with cab modeling, so you get all the power tube glory to FOH. Tube overdrive/distortion/preamp pedals, or tube preamps in hybrid amps, do not at all deliver the sound of an all-tube amp. Maybe a good sound and a sound you like, but it does not have the properties of the tube power amp.
A few weeks ago Mesa released the new Subway BD-800, with a tube preamp and digital modeling in the class D solid state amp that emulates their classic 400+ tube amp. I liked what I read and got one of these. Although it'll never replace my tube rigs, it acts more like a tube amp than any hybrid I've ever played. I'll more than happily use it on gigs with difficult load in/out or gigs requiring lots of stage volume, the BD-800 being 800 watts. Really never thought I'd play solid state again, but I really like this amp.
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I didn't know the Bass 800D was using digital modeling, where did you see that info?
 
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#12
gtirard said:
I didn't know the Bass 800D was using digital modeling, where did you see that info?
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Here's the thread that goes over the whole thing, including direct responses from Mesa.
57pbass

Thread 'New MESA BOOGIE release - MESA/Boogie Bass 800D - 800W Bass Amp Head'

This deserves it’s own thread.. Looks really nice !
IMG_6377.jpeg
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#14
gtirard said:
I didn't know the Bass 800D was using digital modeling, where did you see that info?
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It doesn't use ANY digital modeling, everything is done completely in the analog domain.
 
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#15
Reedi said:
Which camp are you in: tube warmth or solid-state reliability?
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Who says that you can't have "warmth" in solid state or "reliability" is tube amps?

IMO, there are some questionable assumptions being made from the very first sentence of your post.
 
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#16
Reedi said:
Which camp are you in: tube warmth or solid-state reliability? What made you choose your main amp, and would you ever switch?
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I'm in the camp of whatever my wallet tells me I'm in. Full blown tube amps, new, are still big, still heavy, and still very expensive to buy and maintain when it comes time for tube swaps.

I currently have two main amps. My traveling rig, a class D, Mesa D-800+ that I use a two tube preamp pedal in front of along with other various pedals. And a 2 channel, class A GK Goldline 500 that I use strictly on Sundays, bass direct to amp on clean channel, cabs, that's it.

I also have the new class D Mesa Bass 800D hybrid with tube preamp on the way, expected delivery is tomorrow afternoon. I suspect I'll be very happy with it. The last hybrid I had was the Hartke HA3500 and I loved the dual preamp on it. You could dial in any amount of solid state and/or tube preamp on it you wanted. The two tube pre pedal running into my D-800+ has made me very happy so far as well. IMO a tube pre into a solid state pwr section is the way to go.
 
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#17
Sometimes (depends on the room), the fully tube amps are quite boomy, for lack of a better word. Not articulate. I call it a "juke box bass" because individual notes are fairly indistinguishable. I play the hybrids quite a bit (G-B Shuttle 6.0 and G-B Neo 450), but the Mesa Subway D-800+ gets the most use. Great sound, variable HPF to remove the boominess, etc. What's not to love? The newer amps allow much more flexibility - tone, mids, HPF, para-metric eq (semi), the weight, etc., and are so much better than amps available even 20 years ago.

This is a great time to be a bassist. So many good choices available.
 
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#18
Freight Train said:
Here's the thread that goes over the whole thing, including direct responses from Mesa.
57pbass

Thread 'New MESA BOOGIE release - MESA/Boogie Bass 800D - 800W Bass Amp Head'

This deserves it’s own thread.. Looks really nice !
IMG_6377.jpeg
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I haven't seen any statement about digital modeling in that thread (and Agedhorse has just confirmed there's nothing digital in that amp). Can you be more specific?

Maybe you think that the "D" in "class D" stands for "Digital"?
 
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