Double Bass Tuners Of The Future?

[Tom Lane]

Ah, sorry I missed your primary goal. Would it be enough just to remove the "flags" off the stems? Wouldn't the tuner posts still be in the way? Even if you shorten the posts as well as remove the "flags" wouldn't they have to descend a bit from the peg box? If not, doesn't seem too expensive a job to have a machinist square off the ends of the posts so some sort of drum key-like key would fit. Worst case, time for a set of tuners!

 

[Don Kasper]

Ah, sorry I missed your primary goal. Would it be enough just to remove the "flags" off the stems? Wouldn't the tuner posts still be in the way? Even if you shorten the posts as well as remove the "flags" wouldn't they have to descend a bit from the peg box? If not, doesn't seem too expensive a job to have a machinist square off the ends of the posts so some sort of drum key-like key would fit. Worst case, time for a set of tuners!

Exactly - the post would still be in the way.
I'm thinking here of a totally engineered, postless tuner - NOT modifying current tuner design - that would involve too much duct-tape and Crazy Glue.
I'm thinking more like "...what would Ray Kurzweil do?" (OK - maybe Bill Nye The Science Guy.)
Also - I really like my current Rubner tuners - they do exactly what they were designed to do. I don't want to mess with perfection.
I really need a Sacrificial Frankenstein Bass (tm) to implement my (many) caffeine-induced futuristic ideas, which will most certainly change the Bass World for the Better.(tm)
Now, where did I put those coffee filters?

 

[Tom Lane]

Exactly - the post would still be in the way.
I'm thinking here of a totally engineered, postless tuner - NOT modifying current tuner design - that would involve too much duct-tape and Crazy Glue.
I'm thinking more like "...what would Ray Kurzweil do?" (OK - maybe Bill Nye The Science Guy.)
Also - I really like my current Rubner tuners - they do exactly what they were designed to do. I don't want to mess with perfection.
I really need a Sacrificial Frankenstein Bass (tm) to implement my (many) caffeine-induced futuristic ideas, which will most certainly change the Bass World for the Better.(tm)
Now, where did I put those coffee filters?

Hmmm, maybe a ratcheting mechanism in the peg itself? Then you could insert something like a socket wrench extension and twist and the peg would maintain its place via the ratchet. It'd have to be a pretty fine mechanism to provide the required number of "stops".

You still need filters for your coffee?!? I just shovel a handful of grounds in my mouth and CHEW!

 

[Don Kasper]

Nix the ratchet (IMO) - I like to be able to fine-tune without having to change the ratchet direction (+,-) mechanism. I'm thinking something like this -

 

[Tom Lane]

I see. You'd remove the shaft completely from the gear except for a small shaft to receive your key. Might work. Again, not very expensive to try. Buy an okay set of tuners, have the work done, install 'em and see. If it works, more expensive tuners might be justified.

 

[neilG]

... imagine always being in tune without ever touching a peg

That happens to me all the time, because, you know, practicing.

 

[bassmastan]

That happens to me all the time, because, you know, practicing.

Really? I still have to adjust all the time even slightly when I practice every day... I can never leave my bass alone over night and wake up and have it perfectly dead on like it was when I left. It does change a little... Now I have a friend who has a ply bass, who tuned 3 or 4 times a semester... crazy world we live in...

As for the robo tuners, I don't want that to really happen it was just a food for thought kind of thing!

 

[Don Kasper]

who tuned 3 or 4 times a semester...

Ripped from the headlines :
"Student Bassist murders stand partner in bizzare 'tuning' case! Suspect claims the victim '... only tuned 3 or 4 times a semester..."

 

[bassmastan]

Ripped from the headlines :
"Student Bassist murders stand partner in bizzare 'tuning' case! Suspect claims the victim '... only tuned 3 or 4 times a semester..."

HA! Oh how true Don, so true

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I can understand why you want to get rid of the wings and shaft, but I would really miss to be able to tune while playing. There is no real chance to get the key onto the shaft and tune and maybe retune again after a few notes, because you need to get the key on the shaft again.
But I don't use an extension...

 

[Don Kasper]

I can understand why you want to get rid of the wings and shaft, but I would really miss to be able to tune while playing. There is no real chance to get the key onto the shaft and tune and maybe retune again after a few notes, because you need to get the key on the shaft again.
But I don't use an extension...

Yes. There would be a trade-off : easier access to the C-ext. area, vs. less access to fine-tune "on the fly" (during a performance).

 

[james condino]

I've got a prototype removable neck in the shop with a design similar to the headless steinberger, with the machines in the tailpiece, and an F neck with an intermediate D stop. I like how it all works for the neck, but I don't like the extra mass in the tailpiece. I pretty much have a whole shop full of things like that, ' just don't show it very often. The crusty crusty crusty old crew don't like us young punks messin' with their 400 year old tradition...

j.
www.condino.com
www.kaybassrepair.com

 

[Don Kasper]

I agree, James.
Sometimes you need to cut the chain on the "400 year old tradition" anchor, in order to free the SS Innovation.
"Because that's how we've always done it.." can limit and extinguish potentially innovative thinking and experimentation.
Thanks.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Conversely, finding out the hard way that things are done the way they are done after half a millennium for very good reasons kinda sucks. Witness Gorilla Glue.

James, instead of adding all that mass to the tailpiece, what about ripping the tuning assembly off a Steinberger import and adding it to the top of the neck atop a stout protuberance that's unlikely to break in the traditional fashion?

 

[Don Kasper]

Slightly OT - a good friend and now successful bassist, told a story about his first few months of taking bass lessons from one of the members of the Philly Orchestra:
The teacher would tune the bass for him at the beginning of each lesson, in the interest of time - (the student was young, maybe 12 at the time.) After a few months, the teacher asks the student to show him how he tunes up at home, between lessons. My friend answers, slightly confused - "Why would I need to tune it up at home - YOU tune it up every week at my lesson!"
He DID eventually learn to tune the bass on his own.

 

[Armsdealer]

Machining a set of tuners to take a key is easy... but I do own a machine shop...

I tuned in a symphony (many different instruments) for years off of an A from a piano or harp, maybe a flute if it was an orchestra. First time I was out with a Jazz band it was so noisy I went looking for my digital tuner. I was recruited to play with a touring jazz band, it was pretty cool for a teenager, didn't care if I listened to punk, metal, rock, playing something in front of anybody was cool.

 

[Don Kasper]

Machining a set of tuners to take a key is easy... but I do own a machine shop...

Yes. Having the right tools for the job is essential. I have used a Bridgeport vertical milling machine back in the old days, so I think I can envision "how" it could be done.
I'm hesitant to experiment on my (only) bass and tuners, but this is still an intriguing concept.
Thanks for your time, interest and expertise.

 

[Armsdealer]

We still use a 5hp 3 phase variable speed (the good quick change style) Bridgeport. That thing is AWESOME. I would probably throw the keys in a lathe and use a parting tool to cut the heads off. Sure, the could be milled off, but a parting tool will take a few seconds and set up is way easier and it will come out clean. Hell, we could put a nice crown on it like when we do a gun barrel. Not likely anytime soon, I just don't see any cash in it and those tools running make money and we are way backlogged.

We use mostly manual machines, We do have a CNC, but we run it for engraving. We do mostly custom work and make one off guns or small runs of machine guns. If we need something made in bulk, it is better to pay someone with a million dollar CNC to make it than for us to try to make it.

 

[neilG]

Really? I still have to adjust all the time even slightly when I practice every day... I can never leave my bass alone over night and wake up and have it perfectly dead on like it was when I left. It does change a little... Now I have a friend who has a ply bass, who tuned 3 or 4 times a semester... crazy world we live in...
As for the robo tuners, I don't want that to really happen it was just a food for thought kind of thing!

I never said anything about the bass being in tune, just that I played in tune. You don't necessarily need the first for the second. It does help.

 

[bassmastan]

I never said anything about the bass being in tune, just that I played in tune. You don't necessarily need the first for the second. It does help.

That is very true! I was at a viola recital yesterday and it was absolutely wonderful. He hit his bridge (Viola went out of tune) however he heard it and shifted what he needed to shift, played perfectly in tune and beautifully for the rest of the recital