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Double Bass Tuning in 5ths vs. a five string

#121
MikeCanada said:
Problem solved:
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I can see I should have mentioned that a major reason why I am ambivalent about five string bass guitars is the extra weight ....

Anyway, I don't want to inject too much BG talk into this thread or into this side of TB. I am just grateful to the double bassists who pioneered this tuning and to those who helped me see the light, so to speak. I am sorry to hear that some of you face resistance. Many of the reports I have read from your side are very positive, so positive that I thought resistance was non-existent. But I suppose human nature dictates otherwise, eh? I can't tell that anyone at my church notices how I tune but of course that is a far different environment from the ones many of you perform in. I am the only bass and as long as I play the right notes I don't get much attention of any kind. We don't normally have a string section but at tonight's rehearsal we did have a pair of violinists, high school aged sisters. The look on their faces when the worship pastor told them they needed to play this song in "grunge violin style, but don't tell your violin instructors I said that" was precious....
 
#125
For those of you that would like to see the "same" instrument, this video shows a bass in 4ths, one in solo 4ths, and one in 5ths, and they are all the same model made by Kolstein. I know that individual basses, even made by the same shop as the same model can be considerably different, but this is as close as it gets right now.



With some "youtube magic" they could have definitely restrung the exact same instrument, which would have likely made it a bit more scientific or what have you, but I feel like this is pretty close. I would really like to see someone play the same piece of music (some cello suites, one of the big concertos etc.) in the different tunings on the same instrument, but my 4ths playing isn't at a level for me to volunteer myself to do so.
 
#126
I am an amateur who simply loves to play bass. I play on an ancient Italian and tune in 5ths, mostly because I converted from Vc and am not smart enough to play in 4ths. Dalla Costa, Traviso, Italy, 1758. I use Obs. tuned in 5ths. The sound output is massive, sonorous, and dark. You get a foot massage with every note. I believe this bass is a cross-dressing tuba. My only complaint is the pizz. on the low C string-it is weak. After reading several threads, I see many posts from individuals who place Spiro E on their basses to correct fourth string issues. I am thinking about placing a Spiro low C on my bass. Your comments are greatly appreciated. Please advise.
 
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#130
5ths tuning never seemed to catch on. there are always some players here and there who do it, and love it, but i don't recall ever hearing of a large number of people doing it regularly - ie a full symphony section (please fill me in if im wrong!!)

5 strings are popular, and definitely make active passages below E the most playable. as others have said, not all 5 string basses are created equal.

i'm an extension person myself..
 
#132
My experience won't be of great relevance since I play BG, not DB, but after several years of playing in fifths and trying various instruments I find that my favorite fifths tuned BG is a five string! Ironic since I first tried fifths to avoid the need to play a five and then about half an hour into trying the tuning I fell in love with it. Why? One must never question love, there is no why to love. The odd part is that my second favorite fifths tuned BG is a six string. A very guitar like six string. That's the thing about fifths, if you try it and like it, if you try it and it works for you, then the number of strings is irrelevant. It will work as well with four, five, or six.
 
#135
I resumed playing BG after a long hiatus because we started attending a church which was begging for bassists. I quickly stumbled onto TB and just as quickly learned that my newly purchased four string Jazz Bass was no good anymore. I tried a couple of five strings and could not adapt to them. The necks were too wide if the string spacing was the traditional 19mm and I could not adjust to the narrower spacings that produced narrower necks. Occasionally people on the BG side of TB would mention that they used the "cello tuning". Clearly that would not work however. Even on a 34 inch scale BG the reach to the thirds is just too big. I did the math to prove that! Honestly, I was about to try the BEAD tuning.

Then someone posted a blurb about Red Mitchell. Seriously, you can tune a DB in fiths? And still be able to play it?? Apparently it was true since there was a small cadre who had followed in Red's footsteps. I contacted Dennis Masuzzo to get a copy of his book on the subject and he was kind enough to chat with me for a while by email. Curiously, at the time he was tuning his DB in fifths and his BGs in fourths! So, I tried it and I loved it.

Of course playing BG in a worship band at a church gives me an enormous advantage over someone who is attempting to audition for an orchestra position with a fifths tuned DB: I can play what I want to play. I can try to copy some of what I hear on practice recordings but basically I am composing my own part for every song. So I can easily play what works well in the fifths tuning rather than what was written with a fourths tuning in mind. I am, however, imaginative enough to appreciate the difficulty of playing the standard audition repertoire on a normal sized DB. I don't blame anyone here for want to see/hear that being done and done well.

Eventually I hung out on TB long enough to learn of something called a "Bass VI" by Fender fans. It is basically a Fender Jazzmaster guitar with a 30 inch neck tuned an octave below a standard guitar. It even has a "tremolo"! Interesting but too rich for my blood until, horror of horrors, Squier released their version. So I got one and tuned it in fifths. The string spacing on that beast is insanely tight but I was motivated enough to try it and that forced me to learn to adapt. So now I have come full circle and can play just about any BG string spacing, string count, and scale length comfortably and so I no longer need the fifths tuning but I stick with it because I just love it. No reason for that, it just is.

That humble Squier (which is a blast to play, btw) taught me that there is no question that it is easier to play fifths at a 30 inch scale than at 34 inches. But I find that anything I learn to play at 30 inches I can then play at 34. I suppose it is possible then to play well at the normal DB scale, but I am not the person to prove that to any of you.
 
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#138
SAlcott said:
I know there are orchestra players who tune in 5ths, so I know it can be done; I’ve just ever seen them in person or on video.
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The Gruber is not playable, or it would be absurdly difficult. That rules out working in most of Europe.
Joel us the only one I know of who has been offered a job over here, but LSO is concerto of choice and he is just so good nobody cares.
 
#139
I've played with 5ths tuning on and off for a number of years. You definitely need a modern left hand technique. I don't recommend people audition tuned in 5ths. There is an "acceptable universal professional standard" for playing the double bass and one should know that - the pedagogy, the literature, the type of tone and style, etc. And if you play in an orchestra section, you need to be a team player and work with your section mates. Auditions are hard enough, so don't give somebody a reason not to like you by playing tuned in 5ths.

If you are an artist and just playing your own music, or you've already won a principal position, then you can tune the bass however you want.

I have found that I really like playing the classical and romantic symphonic literature in 5ths. Sure, thirds are more challenging but you make up for that in other places. So much of that literature is doubling the cello and those lines are often written with the cello's tuning in mind. I honestly find the 1st mvt. of Mozart 40, Brahms 2 letter E, Beethoven 5 trio, and all of the Strauss tone poems easier in 5ths tuning. My main challenge is that there is no real good orchestral string made for 5ths tuning. Playing on Spiros or mix and match sets makes bowing harder and makes learning to use the bow correctly harder. In an orchestra setting those differences are not so obvious but in an audition they stand out compared to other players using Passiones or Belcantos.

If you play the Dittersdorff, you should try playing it with a Viennese tuning. At least for while, just to learn the tuning that the concerto was written for. It's really educational. Same goes for playing the Bach Suites in 5ths or on a cello. It really opens your mind up to why Bach wrote certain things the way he did. Just my two cents, anyway.
 
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#140
SAlcott said:
I know there are orchestra players who tune in 5ths, so I know it can be done; I’ve just ever seen them in person or on video.
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Here's Joel Quarrington. He's principal bassist for the National Arts Centre Orchestra in Ottawa, was principal for the Toronto Symphony and for the London Symphony Orchestra too. I'm pretty sure he got 2 of those gigs by auditioning in 5ths...
 

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