Turn down or I turn off - another Volume Wars post

[whatizitman]

Forgot to mention that the drummer uses an electronic drum kit for rehearsals (sounds utterly hideous IMO but easier to transport etc.) so his volume is controllable.

Oh man. There's just simply no excuse. Guitar is playing too loud, plain and simple.

That, and as previously mentioned, everyone is competing sonically. Sounds like the guitarist just wants to hear himself, and not the music. Asking him about his "low end" should be the giveaway. Gawd I hate that.

Maybe he is just kinda new at playing oldies, and needs to have a sit down. Or he is geetard and just needs to be sent packing.

 

[TedH]

OP here. I spoke privately to the BL yesterday and aired my concerns, and he generally agreed with me. During sound check next week, while our ears are still fresh, we're going to identify maximum gain and master volume knob settings for guitars and bass. No one will be allowed to turn up. If there is a volume matching issue, then someone turns down.

The issue over sonic space remains. I am still concerned about how a 2nd guitar is supposed to fit into an oldies band.

Glad I didn't quit, but I am a bit sick of the endless band negotiations.

Gee it's good to have a forum of like minded folks.

Lot's of free dB meters for iPhone, etc. Suggest using that @95db and setting gains from there as an idea.

 

[RoadRanger]

One band used to practice in the kitchen of the drummer's tiny apartment. He used only a snare with a towel over the head and played with hot rods. The guitarist and I used 5 watt practice amps and we sang unamplified. It can be done...

But you had a real drummer - rarer than hen's teeth. Most are "self taught" bashasauruses .

 

[brianrost]

Hey, RoadRanger where in CT are you from? I grew up in Cheshire, graduated UConn and moved to outside Worcester MA 35 years ago.

I must just be super lucky, most bands I've been in had drummers who really knew what they were doing. I've played with a few that complained that other players were too loud (and they were right).

 

[RoadRanger]

Hey, RoadRanger where in CT are you from?

I'm actually from the southern suburbs of Wormtown originally, moved to the Northeast corner of CT about 15 years ago. Played my first gig at Sir Morgan's Cove <mumblemumble> years ago .

 

[Munjibunga]

Good luck with that They don't care, why should you? If you want to play in a band you have to let it go. Or you could always go back to playing in your bedroom like many of those offering advice here .

Seriously, you don't have to quit to keep looking for a better band to play with - best way to do that is keep playing out and getting better yourself . Heck, I'm playing in three projects that won't ever go anywhere and a couple more just for a change of pace. Got one brewing that could actually not suck except it'll have musicians in it so we'll see LOL.

Why? Because I don't want to be known for playing in a crappy, too-loud band. I'm with the OP.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I've always felt, especially at rehearsals, if you can't talk to each other while you are playing, it's too &&%-in' loud.

Determine your line in the sand. Then calmly discuss with the band.

No band is worth damaging your hearing.

 

[RoadRanger]

No band is worth damaging your hearing.

That's why they invented earplugs . I've been using them since ~1980. Tonight I was using my 30 watt Ashdown CTM-30 with two guitards playing 1x12 combos and even with them keeping down to my max volume ("pushed" into a 4x10) I was wishin' I had more than the 20dB of reduction of my earplugs .

 

[bassboysam]

Excessive volume is a sign of poor musicianship. It covers up bad timing, bad vocals, sloppy playing. A good drummer can play the same beats at different volumes.
You want to improve your band and individual musicianship? Turn down for practice. Warts will become immediately obvious.

really? you know these to be facts? if we practice too loud four your tastes we must be poor musicians?

we're an original band so we don't play shows every week. we use our practice time to to have fun and play music and use our gear. we'll turn down to work out new parts but that only takes a few minutes. we practice at the volume we would play a show at that way our performances are as close to how we practiced as possible.

 

[brianrost]

 

[Cuzzie]

We play at a very reasonable volume precisely for each other.
Guitarist a tech 21 15w combo amp, I got a Hartke HD25. Drummer got an electric kit, partly for practice partly actually because the new electronic kits sounds awesome!
My guitarist put down his Les Paul and brought out his Strat for sonic space territories.

I rarely go above vol level 2 using a pedal or 4 without and we can all talk.

I have the bigger rig waiting with the pedals ready set for the actual sound per song for an every so often 'dress rehearsal'

 

[buldog5151bass]

That's why they invented earplugs . I've been using them since ~1980. Tonight I was using my 30 watt Ashdown CTM-30 with two gui****s playing 1x12 combos and even with them keeping down to my max volume ("pushed" into a 4x10) I was wishin' I had more than the 20dB of reduction of my earplugs .

I've got 'em, but if I have to use 'em on a regular basis, I consider that a bad sign.

 

[EastCoastThump]

However loud the drummer is, or isn't, and whatever volume he plays at, is the threshold.

I've seen drummers who think this, who refuse to play at lower volume even when the drum volume endangers hearing, costs the band bookings, or buries the vocals.

If the drummer's heavy-handedness is hurting the band, "whatever volume the drummer prefers to play at" can't be the *only* consideration that dictates the band's overall volume.

 

[electracoyote]

I've seen drummers who think this, who refuse to play at lower volume even when the drum volume endangers hearing, costs the band bookings, or buries the vocals.

If the drummer's heavy-handedness is hurting the band, "whatever volume the drummer prefers to play at" can't be the *only* consideration that dictates the band's overall volume.

For starters, you misquoted me, badly. Please read my words again:

However loud the drummer is, or isn't, and whatever volume he plays at, is the threshold.

I agree with your sentiment, and drummers should exercise common sense, but at least if you only have to encourage the drummer to adjust his volume you are starting at the source and not trying to unravel the aftermath of the volume war he started.

One of my bands rehearses in a tight space, and a lot of our gigs are in tight spaces, so we had to diplomatically counsel the drummer to use a lighter touch and hot rods. We play to his appropriate threshold and we've never had volume issues.

 

[Lobster11]

I suspect that the main problem is that the two guitars are usually playing the same thing at the same time -- e.g., the same voicings of the same chords in the same rhythmic patterns -- which causes each of them to turn up so they can hear their own guitar over the other. That's also probably why it sounds like punk: It's not just the volume, it's that everyone is pounding the same chords in unison. If the guitarists can work out arrangements to stay out of each other's way and avoid playing the same thing at the same time, their parts will be sufficiently distinct so they will each be able to hear themselves without turning up.

 

[mpdd]

last weekend - lowish volume show, fuzz bass, clean bass, guitar, and drums, lotta fun, great mix, and no miscommunication
bass 1 - distortion/fuzz/feedback/ss amp/bright bass
bass 2 - light od if any/tube amp/dark sounding bass

 

[RoadRanger]

I've got 'em <earplugs>, but if I have to use 'em on a regular basis, I consider that a bad sign.

Only a sign that you have more than one electric guitard LOL. I can often go without if only one - never with two.

 

[mellowinman]

Overly loud musicians frequently aren't very talented. I'm not saying always, I'm saying frequently. Anyway, if I'm in the room, and you disrespect my hearing/vocals enough to turn up too loud, you are the enemy, and will be treated as such. I've played in enough bands who were capable of rehearsing at the appropriate volume that I have no time for idiots.

 

[bassboysam]

i don't understand how people even "join" a band without understanding what the appropriate volume will be. it should be discussed at the very beginning, agreed on and then it should never be an issue after that. there's no such thing as too loud or too quiet, it's all about what the group wants to do. if you can't agree on somehting as simple as volume then you have no business being that band. it will never work

 

[JRA]

i've known some amazing guitar players (mostly, but not always, jazzers) who usually asked for decreased volume settings from everyone when levels were getting out of hand. i've known and played with a few 'hacks' who substituted volume for chops. IME: seems like most jazzers want to 'play with'. i have gotten the sense that rock=loud for most players in the genre.