For those interested I just purchased this Tutmarc Lap Steel with the intention of making a Tutmarc repro bass.... It has so many similar features including the bridge, pickup, all the electrics and some of the body dimensions, I should get pretty close......First though I'll restring this one with 4 strings and see how it sounds, I know the nut to bridge is different but it still could be cool ...I thought I could temporarily add enough wood at the bridge to move it to 30 5/16 " add a frettless board and then it should sound the same... also would you sacrifice this lap guitar parts including original pickup to make a Audiovox repro????? I need some opinions......
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Tutmarc audiovox model 736: where are they?
- Thread starter beebassdude
- Start date
Depends on what you're "going for".
If you're looking to capture a specific sound , then using the authentic Tutmarc components makes sense. However, by pirating the parts off another authentic Tutmarc product to make a re-creation of a Tutmarc product seems, well, just nor a good idea.
Now if you had a Tutmarc bass husk that needed those parts to be completed, THEN you'd be totally justified to dismantle the steel to make your bass. IMHO/.
Coolest idea of all would be to have BOTH operational, find some period-correct drums, and record an all-Tutmarc song or two.
If you're looking to capture a specific sound , then using the authentic Tutmarc components makes sense. However, by pirating the parts off another authentic Tutmarc product to make a re-creation of a Tutmarc product seems, well, just nor a good idea.
Now if you had a Tutmarc bass husk that needed those parts to be completed, THEN you'd be totally justified to dismantle the steel to make your bass. IMHO/.
Coolest idea of all would be to have BOTH operational, find some period-correct drums, and record an all-Tutmarc song or two.
As long as you're going to have to manufacture a few of the components anyway... I'd be measuring the output and trying to find some more readily-available pickups and hardware to get as close as possible, but it will probably be a bit more "reliable" with newer components anyway.
Concentrate on the shape, the outward appearance, maybe even relic it a bit to make a "tribute" piece that's still playable. And keep looking for that original one to show up.
You, more than anyone, know that those old rarities DO re-surface eventually.
Concentrate on the shape, the outward appearance, maybe even relic it a bit to make a "tribute" piece that's still playable. And keep looking for that original one to show up.
You, more than anyone, know that those old rarities DO re-surface eventually.
IMO, don't do anything to the Tutmarc steel that you can't readily reverse. Placing the original steel's pickup in your replica bass sounds like a good idea to me to get a reference point for duplicating the pickup & sound. Then put it back in the steel!
If you havent seen all the photos on the Last Bass Outpost thread on Audiovox, then check them out.
If you havent seen all the photos on the Last Bass Outpost thread on Audiovox, then check them out.
Thanks guys I already have the black Walnut ready to be cut I hope to use this steel to atleast get all of the measurements I don't have, to reconstruct the entire body....Peter in Seattle has a real one and I hope to get the width at the 12th fret and the nut from him. an ebony fingerboard and the luthier in town here is willing to fret the neck for me. "Design" my intentions are to transfer everything from the steel to the bass that I can, pickup, volume control, output cord, etc. so I can hear it as it should be.... I will not damage the steel so they can be put back when I'm ready. I would rather make a repro pickup and control circuit for the steel, so I can have the real sound of the bass....we will wait and see.......
Repro components in the REAL Tutmarc... and original components in the repro Tutmarc (bass)?
Are you sure that's the way you want to go? You got nothing of any historical value then.
Are you sure that's the way you want to go? You got nothing of any historical value then.
No I'm not sure, you are right. but being a bass player having the exact sound might mean more to me than a historically correct steel I can't play anyway... I have atleast a month to make that decision..... If I could get a real Tutmarc I would and trust me I have tried, so far I have failed.
I just saw this post. I'd be happy to drop it into CAD and develop some measurements from that. I can't vouch for any accuracy, but I'll do what I can and post the results.
I was able to scale the images provided by Moonshine Guitars and very nearly recreate the measurements provided from EMP that seemed to coincide pretty closely with Moonshine Guitars notes. Since the picture isn't perfectly straight to the camera (i.e. it's turned slightly), here is what I have for reference, followed by the requested dimensions and some additional dimensions that may prove useful.
Using the measurements provided by EMP
Nut to Bridge Length: 30 5/16"
Overall Length: 37 1/2"
Overall Width: 9 7/8"
Overall Depth: Unknown with given pictures
Width of Nut: 1 5/16"
Neck Depth at Nut: Unknown with given pictures
Neck Width at Octave: 1 9/16" (centered on 12th fret)
Neck Depth at Octave: Unknown with given pictures
Nut Material: Unknown
Fret Size: The image isn't high enough resolution to give an accurate measurement
String Spacing at Nut (center to center): EA 3/8", AD 3/8", DG 5/16"
String Spacing at Bridge (center to center): EA 1/2", AD 1/2", DG 9/16"
Dimensions of Bridge: top width 3 15/16", bottom width 2 9/16", height 13/16"
Dimensions of Pickup: width 2 1/8", height 1/8"
Other dimensions that might be of use:
Width at heel block: 1 5/8"
Width of headstock at nut: 1 5/16"
Width of headstock widest point: 2 5/8"
Again, I cannot stress this enough: These dimensions are an approximation based on dropping a non-high resolution image that is not square to the camera into CAD, scaling the image to the approximate dimensions provided by EMP, and using that as a "model" to derive additional measurements.
Using the measurements provided by EMP
Nut to Bridge Length: 30 5/16"
Overall Length: 37 1/2"
Overall Width: 9 7/8"
Overall Depth: Unknown with given pictures
Width of Nut: 1 5/16"
Neck Depth at Nut: Unknown with given pictures
Neck Width at Octave: 1 9/16" (centered on 12th fret)
Neck Depth at Octave: Unknown with given pictures
Nut Material: Unknown
Fret Size: The image isn't high enough resolution to give an accurate measurement
String Spacing at Nut (center to center): EA 3/8", AD 3/8", DG 5/16"
String Spacing at Bridge (center to center): EA 1/2", AD 1/2", DG 9/16"
Dimensions of Bridge: top width 3 15/16", bottom width 2 9/16", height 13/16"
Dimensions of Pickup: width 2 1/8", height 1/8"
Other dimensions that might be of use:
Width at heel block: 1 5/8"
Width of headstock at nut: 1 5/16"
Width of headstock widest point: 2 5/8"
Again, I cannot stress this enough: These dimensions are an approximation based on dropping a non-high resolution image that is not square to the camera into CAD, scaling the image to the approximate dimensions provided by EMP, and using that as a "model" to derive additional measurements.
Happy to help. Since I have a working "model" of this, I can provide any other dimensions you might need. Shoot me a PM if anything comes up.
Wow. Great work silky smooth. I'm going to pst my other research here for all to read. Also the email I had from EMP says the overall depth is 1 3/4". Also you might want to compare the black walnut photos with the photo on the net of the white enamel model (full length but not hi-res photo).
Sources:
1. Blecha, Peter, 2005. Tutmarc, Paul (1896-1972), and his Audiovox Electric Guitars,
HistoryLink.org Essay7479 http://www.historylink.org/index.cfmDisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=7479
2. Teagle, John, March 1999, Vintage Guitar Magazine. Fender Myth Debunked! (Part I). Invalid Link Removed
3. Tutmarc, Bud, date unknown (pre-2006). The True Facts on the Invention of the Electric Guitar and Electric Bass, http://tutmarc.tripod.com/paultutmarc.html
4. Wilson, Rick. Date TBA. Notes and photographs posted online on BassOutpost forum by Rick Wilson of Moonshine Guitars after his inspection of a black walnut Audiovox 736. [email protected]
5. Wilson, Rick. Date TBA. Notes and photographs posted online on TalkBass Forum by Rick Wilson of Moonshine Guitars after his inspection of a black walnut Audiovox 736. [email protected]
6. Barrett, Britta. May 15 2013. Email correspondence from EMP Museum, Seattle, WA. USA, to talkbass forum member "Design", regarding their white enamel Audiovox 736.
Frets: 16 frets.
Neck fit: Neck thru body single piece of black walnut, with wings added to body.
Fingerboard: Ebony fingerboard
Headstock: Black walnut example has small metal plate “AUDIOVOX SEATTLE, WASH.” attached to headstock by two “pins”.
Tuners
Four tuners: size, type unknown
Bridge
Metal bridge (brass?), fixed to body by 3 screws.
Hardware
Scratch-plate, metal sheet (possibly copper on black walnut example, possibly steel on white example), fixed to body by 12 screws. Slot in Scratch-plate for single blade of pickup to protrude.
Controls: one knob (volume function?)
Four Strings, gauges unknown. Strung thru-body, no visible ferrules in photos.
One split-polepiece magnetic "humbucking" pickup (1). Wired in series?
Bud Tutmarc says the first Tutmarc pickups were 38 or 40 gauge wire (not confirmed) (3)
The Stimson pick-ups were allegedly jointly designed with Paul Tutmarc Sr. (2)
Pickup Output 2.97 ohms
Art Stimson filed two patent applications for pickups for Dobro. The first application was filed April 7, 1933. The second was after that date. “This [second] pickup is similar to the George Beauchamp Electro/ Rickenbacher string-driven horseshoe pickup in many respects, but does not extend over the strings, (…
being entirely under the strings. It also has twin coils (bass side/treble side) wired in series, each with its own blade-style polepiece attached to an opposite end (polarity) of the horseshoe magnet. Assuming the coils were reverse-wound (why else would they bother with two), you have the first humbucking pickup for a guitar, as seen on split-pickup P-basses (the theory behind hum cancellation was well-established by the mid ’30s).” (2)
Pickup position on black walnut example is approx. 2” from bridge?
Pickup position on white enamel example in EMP museum is approx. 6” from bridge?
Sources:
1. Blecha, Peter, 2005. Tutmarc, Paul (1896-1972), and his Audiovox Electric Guitars,
HistoryLink.org Essay7479 http://www.historylink.org/index.cfmDisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=7479
2. Teagle, John, March 1999, Vintage Guitar Magazine. Fender Myth Debunked! (Part I). Invalid Link Removed
3. Tutmarc, Bud, date unknown (pre-2006). The True Facts on the Invention of the Electric Guitar and Electric Bass, http://tutmarc.tripod.com/paultutmarc.html
4. Wilson, Rick. Date TBA. Notes and photographs posted online on BassOutpost forum by Rick Wilson of Moonshine Guitars after his inspection of a black walnut Audiovox 736. [email protected]
5. Wilson, Rick. Date TBA. Notes and photographs posted online on TalkBass Forum by Rick Wilson of Moonshine Guitars after his inspection of a black walnut Audiovox 736. [email protected]
6. Barrett, Britta. May 15 2013. Email correspondence from EMP Museum, Seattle, WA. USA, to talkbass forum member "Design", regarding their white enamel Audiovox 736.
Frets: 16 frets.
Neck fit: Neck thru body single piece of black walnut, with wings added to body.
Fingerboard: Ebony fingerboard
Headstock: Black walnut example has small metal plate “AUDIOVOX SEATTLE, WASH.” attached to headstock by two “pins”.
Tuners
Four tuners: size, type unknown
Bridge
Metal bridge (brass?), fixed to body by 3 screws.
Hardware
Scratch-plate, metal sheet (possibly copper on black walnut example, possibly steel on white example), fixed to body by 12 screws. Slot in Scratch-plate for single blade of pickup to protrude.
Controls: one knob (volume function?)
Four Strings, gauges unknown. Strung thru-body, no visible ferrules in photos.
One split-polepiece magnetic "humbucking" pickup (1). Wired in series?
Bud Tutmarc says the first Tutmarc pickups were 38 or 40 gauge wire (not confirmed) (3)
The Stimson pick-ups were allegedly jointly designed with Paul Tutmarc Sr. (2)
Pickup Output 2.97 ohms
Art Stimson filed two patent applications for pickups for Dobro. The first application was filed April 7, 1933. The second was after that date. “This [second] pickup is similar to the George Beauchamp Electro/ Rickenbacher string-driven horseshoe pickup in many respects, but does not extend over the strings, (…
being entirely under the strings. It also has twin coils (bass side/treble side) wired in series, each with its own blade-style polepiece attached to an opposite end (polarity) of the horseshoe magnet. Assuming the coils were reverse-wound (why else would they bother with two), you have the first humbucking pickup for a guitar, as seen on split-pickup P-basses (the theory behind hum cancellation was well-established by the mid ’30s).” (2)Pickup position on black walnut example is approx. 2” from bridge?
Pickup position on white enamel example in EMP museum is approx. 6” from bridge?
I got my steel today, it sure is beautiful, the wood thickness of the body is 13/4 inches thick, that is one of the major dimension I was missing,the scale is 22.5 inches making it much shorter than the bass...21/8 at the nut and 2.5 at 12th frett, the body is 8.5 wide....so while I have dimensions for the bass I will have to scale them a bit.
Mr ogle I think I will make two prototypes one with all the borrowed components and one with reproduced as close as I can components that way when I get them to sound the same I could put the originals back in the steel.....Its too pretty to rob the parts for long....... I think I can live with that!!!
Mr ogle I think I will make two prototypes one with all the borrowed components and one with reproduced as close as I can components that way when I get them to sound the same I could put the originals back in the steel.....Its too pretty to rob the parts for long....... I think I can live with that!!!
I don't think this 2011 book has been metioned here before. A high priced limited edition called The Guitar Collection, by Walter Carter. Here's a link that shows a few pages:
Invalid Link Removed
The index lists the Audiovox 736 on page 144, so if you can track down a copy at a library, or a friendly collector then i think youd have a hi-res front view photo of the EMP white enamel model, to add to our collection of reference images. If anyone can find this pic please post it!
Invalid Link Removed
The index lists the Audiovox 736 on page 144, so if you can track down a copy at a library, or a friendly collector then i think youd have a hi-res front view photo of the EMP white enamel model, to add to our collection of reference images. If anyone can find this pic please post it!
I just had look at this again, also at photos of the bridge. Firstly i realised the nut is narrower than the nut on my Mahalo ukelele! Secondly i noticed for the first time that the bridge has string "notches" cut in.
In the photo of the Tutmarc famliy, with Lorraine holding the bass, maybe she is playing with a plectrum? With such a narrow nut and narrow string spacing it could make finger-stye playing difficult. The photo of Bud tutmarc's gospel group shows the playing using his thumb.
Wow! What a piece of history! Please, someone build a replica, get the story of that and/or the original published, and see if there's enough interest for someone out there to make limited-run replicas that interested parties could purchase.
They do it with almost every other manufactured product, why not the "first" electric bass guitar?
They do it with almost every other manufactured product, why not the "first" electric bass guitar?
