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Two 4x8 cabs vs two 112 cabs?

J

jpsexton

Apr 12, 2004
28
3
#1
I currently have an Ashdown ABM 500 and two 112 cabinets loaded with Delta-12LFA's and horn. I love the potability of this rig but I have never been completely happy. The low end is strong but always a little boomy.

I have lately been thinking that maybe two 4x8 cabs might just be the solution. Still just as portable but tight and focused like a 4x10.

There are a few on the market. Ashdown, Markbass, Seismic Audio, and LDS just to name a few.

What are your thoughts?

(BTW, I play 4 string jazz basses...)
 
#2
The Delta 12 LFA has a huge peak at 2 khz and drops off fast. If you're running a HF driver and not a mid range, your cab probably has a whole lot bigger mid scoop than a normal 410 does between woofer and tweet. That is assuming your cabs and speakers are a match and since your profile isn't filled out and I have no idea if they're home brew or not. ;)

Oh, and I'd check out fEarful cabs if you haven't yet.
 
#5
christw said:
That is assuming your cabs and speakers are a match and since your profile isn't filled out and I have no idea if they're home brew or not. ;)
Click to expand...

They match according to Eminence recommendations. They are not homebrew but not the oem speakers for the cabinet either.

billfitzmaurice said:
That's the fault of the cabinet design, not the size of the drivers used.
Click to expand...

That probably has something to do with it but I used to have a Trace Elliot combo with a 12 in it and I always felt the same way about it. Not overly boomy mind you but I want a more focused cleaner sound.

What do you think of 8's?
 
#6
steamthief said:
Bill, I know without driver specs or cab design it's tough for you to answer, but generally speaking, what's your opinion of using 8" drivers as the primary voice of a cab?
Click to expand...
Eights have too small a displacement to be cost effective. The average eight displaces 75cc, the average fifteen 350cc, so you'll need more than four eights to equal one fifteen in low frequency output. But the average fifteen doesn't cost more than four times what eights do; one and a half times perhaps.
Then there's the matter of dispersion. Yes, eights usually go higher than fifteens, and more important have wider high frequency dispersion, but when you put eights side by side kiss that dispersion goodby. From both a cost and sonically effective standpoint one fifteen and one six, with a crossover of course, is far better than a 4x8.
 
#8
steamthief said:
....... what's your opinion of using 8" drivers as the primary voice of a cab?
Click to expand...

Steamthief,
I've owned most the 2x8 cabinets that have been built over the last 20 years. A SWR Baby Blue 2x8 with it's accompanying 2X8 extension. A pair of Flite Sound 2x8's with Near aluminum drivers. A single Euphonic Audio VL 208, and an LDS 2x8 Three Way. I also played through Ken Jungs' LDS 3x8 cabinet.
My take, is that multiple 8's can sound very good, depending on the person who builds the cabinet. A pair of VL 208's with the right power amp can really sound phenomenal, and Don's LDS 2x8 three sounds incredible. It handles 450 watts, since he used B&C Neo's. Apparently, the new Fatial
8" neo's are even better at handling lows. The drawback is those drivers are expensive, so two custom built 4x8 cabinets, with an additional midrange and tweeter is not as cheap as a single 12 with a tweeter. The speakers alone for two, four eight cabinets, would be $1,423.00 and no commercial or
boutique cabinet builders build one, so that should tell you something. SWR was the only manufacturer to actually build 4x8's and they were not a successful product for them.
Ric
 
#9
As said, don't get hung up on size, you can include different 12's in your hunt. The deltaLF is just that...Low Frequency. It's tradeoff for that full bottom is not much upper response to balance it out. They also like a box that's likely a bit bigger than what they're in to keep from getting too boomy. Something with a deltaliteII or an OEM variant of it will have at least as much lowend capability, likely more, but have much better upper response to balance it out. They're also more small-box friendly and higher spl...more sound coming out per watt going in.

8's with a good combination of spl and low enough response for a full bottom are hard to find. I can't remember the model but there is one LDS uses that's about the best 8 I've seen for electric bass that doesn't come with a completely insane price. Of course, when you start mounting them side-by-side, you've destroyed on of the biggest advantages to using an 8 in the first place.
 
#10
will33 said:
8's with a good combination of spl and low enough response for a full bottom are hard to find. I can't remember the model but there is one LDS uses that's about the best 8 I've seen for electric bass that doesn't come with a completely insane price. Of course, when you start mounting them side-by-side, you've destroyed on of the biggest advantages to using an 8 in the first place.
Click to expand...

Will 33,
Don Oatman originally used B&C 8NW51's Invalid Link Removed
There is an Eminence that he found was pretty close, his comments were that it was 80% as good as the B&C's which cost a lot more money.

Bill's comments below, jogged my memory about the design of my LDS 2X8 three way. Don's a pretty sharp guy, because rather than placing the two B&C 8" drivers with one directly above the other, he placed them diagonally. I would assume that helped with dispersion issue that Bill mentioned.

"Yes, eights usually go higher than fifteens, and more important have wider high frequency dispersion, but when you put eights side by side kiss that dispersion goodby."

Ric
 
#13
Ric Vice said:
Will 33,
Don Oatman originally used B&C 8NW51's Invalid Link Removed
There is an Eminence that he found was pretty close, his comments were that it was 80% as good as the B&C's which cost a lot more money.

Bill's comments below, jogged my memory about the design of my LDS 2X8 three way. Don's a pretty sharp guy, because rather than placing the two B&C 8" drivers with one directly above the other, he placed them diagonally. I would assume that helped with dispersion issue that Bill mentioned.

"Yes, eights usually go higher than fifteens, and more important have wider high frequency dispersion, but when you put eights side by side kiss that dispersion goodby."

Ric
Click to expand...

In a 2 or 3 way design, it depends on where they're crossed over to the next higher driver. Done right, the dispersion may not be an issue at all.
When running them fullrange or going straight from woofer to tweeter, the narrower a pattern you can get them in, the wider dispersion and the less combing there is in the horizontal plane. Hence the "side by side is wrong, diagonal is better, vertical is best".
 
#15
Putting aside the hypothetical "what is better than the other" talk, have you thought specifically about SWR's Henry the 8x8? If the modularity of 2 4x10s is not a deciding factor, you should look at one of these - they come up cheap on the used market, and are very nice sounding cabs. At 100 lbs they weigh about as much as a standard 4x10, and while they are a little bulky the wheels make them pretty easy to move - if you have space in your vehicle.
 
#17
Ric Vice said:
Steamthief,
I've owned most the 2x8 cabinets that have been built over the last 20 years. A SWR Baby Blue 2x8 with it's accompanying 2X8 extension. A pair of Flite Sound 2x8's with Near aluminum drivers. A single Euphonic Audio VL 208, and an LDS 2x8 Three Way. I also played through Ken Jungs' LDS 3x8 cabinet.
My take, is that multiple 8's can sound very good, depending on the person who builds the cabinet. A pair of VL 208's with the right power amp can really sound phenomenal, and Don's LDS 2x8 three sounds incredible. It handles 450 watts, since he used B&C Neo's. Apparently, the new Fatial
8" neo's are even better at handling lows. The drawback is those drivers are expensive, so two custom built 4x8 cabinets, with an additional midrange and tweeter is not as cheap as a single 12 with a tweeter. The speakers alone for two, four eight cabinets, would be $1,423.00 and no commercial or
boutique cabinet builders build one, so that should tell you something. SWR was the only manufacturer to actually build 4x8's and they were not a successful product for them.
Ric
Click to expand...

I once owned a Nemesis N28S combo, and while it didn't sound anywhere close to the advertised 120 watts, the two 8" drivers produced a really smooth, rich, balanced tone. I wish I didn't sell it, for me it was probably the perfect practice amp, even if the drivers were side-by-side.

I asked Bill his thoughts on eights because I've seen a couple Traynor 8x8 cabs pop up at pretty good prices. I've read good stuff about the SWR 8x8 cabs, and I'm trying to determine if it's worth my while to take a sixty minute drive for a demo.
 
#18
will33 said:
In a 2 or 3 way design, it depends on where they're crossed over to the next higher driver. Done right, the dispersion may not be an issue at all.
When running them fullrange or going straight from woofer to tweeter, the narrower a pattern you can get them in, the wider dispersion and the less combing there is in the horizontal plane. Hence the "side by side is wrong, diagonal is better, vertical is best".
Click to expand...

Will 33,
Again, this is very appropriate to my cabinets. My favorite 2x8 Double Bass Cabinet is the VL 208 that has the drivers aligned vertically, with a D' appolito Array (Mid, Treble, Mid) directly adjacent the two drivers. It has a very smooth response and lots of definition. Thanks for the great info.

Ric
 
#20
Ric Vice said:
Will 33,
Again, this is very appropriate to my cabinets. My favorite 2x8 Double Bass Cabinet is the VL 208 that has the drivers aligned vertically, with a D' appolito Array (Mid, Treble, Mid) directly adjacent the two drivers. It has a very smooth response and lots of definition. Thanks for the great info.

Ric
Click to expand...

That's perhaps the best alignment there is. D'Appolito is a genius. He's one of the guys who figured out, or at least put together some of the stuff we take for granted.......and subsequently ruin for the sake of "convenience".
 

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