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Two Cabs - positioning

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Mr_Martin, Feb 2, 2015.


  1. Mr_Martin

    Mr_Martin

    Jul 31, 2014
    Germany
    What is the most efficient positioning concerning driver coupling, bass frequencies, loudness etc.
    And what are the advantages/disadvantages of these three different positions in the rehearsal room?

    Cab Positioning.jpg
     
  2. Arjank

    Arjank

    Oct 9, 2007
    Above Amsterdam
    nr 2 will be the most efficient down low, this setup will sound more "beefy" then the others.
    nr.1 will approx have the same lowend as nr. 3 but horizontal dispersion will be better.

    In most cases I would choose nr.1 not as "beefy" as nr.2 but better dispersion which will increase audibility (intelligibility).
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
    T_Bone_TL and Mr_Martin like this.
  3. Mr_Martin

    Mr_Martin

    Jul 31, 2014
    Germany
    Why the horizontal dispersion?
    Not vertical because the cabs in nr. 1 are vertical stacked?
     
  4. Arjank

    Arjank

    Oct 9, 2007
    Above Amsterdam
    When you would place the cabs side-by-side (nr. 3) the "beaming" effect will start at a lower frequency(twice as low), in return dispersion in the horizontal plane will be reduced (significantly)
    To increase dispersion of nr.3 one should cross-fire them.
     
  5. Arjank

    Arjank

    Oct 9, 2007
    Above Amsterdam
    When you would place the cabs side-by-side (nr. 3) the "beaming" effect will start at a lower frequency(twice as low), in return dispersion in the horizontal plane will be reduced (significantly)
     
  6. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
    I don't know anything about the science behind this, but I know that you will hear yourself best in the first position.

    Also, is that your setup, or anticipate setup? I was running 2 GK 2x12 Neo cabs for a short while. I was very underwhelmed.
     
  7. Mr_Martin

    Mr_Martin

    Jul 31, 2014
    Germany
    Yet i have only one 212 but i need another cab because i play in a loud Band (loud Drummer) and i feel that i haven't enough lowend and Volume (even at [email protected]).
     
    cchorney likes this.
  8. Lobster11

    Lobster11 Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Apr 22, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    Yeah, there's nothing like getting one of those cabs up closer to your ears -- especially when you have to stand right in front of the rig.
     
    cchorney likes this.
  9. Mr_Martin

    Mr_Martin

    Jul 31, 2014
    Germany
    Why underwhelmed, and what cabs are you running now?
     
  10. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
    FWIW, I felt the same way, and the added 2X12 didn't make a whole lot of difference. I held onto one of the cabs because I like the way it sounds at low volumes, but for reasons unknown to me even 2 of those GK 12s didn't do the trick. They farted and rattled before I could get the volume and sound that I wanted out of them.

    I've been through a lot of heads, bottoms and combos trying to get the most most volume possible out of the smallest package. For a while I had a Bergantino NV610 that delivered in spades... big, but actually easier to lug around for me than the 2GK cabs. I've since had to downsize due to a new car, and actually found myself really happy running 2 Carvin MB15s with a 500 watt head. Puts out much more without breaking up than the the 4X12s did, as impossible as that might seem. And in the US they're only $229 each. Not sure what it would cost you in Germany but you might want to investigate.
     
  11. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    But No.2 will also begin to comb filter as the frequency rises.
     
  12. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    What cab? Not all 212's are created equal. What is your placement with respect to walls and corners? A cab placed in that danger zone of 2'~8' of a wall or corner is at risk of boundary cancellation.
     
  13. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
    What does comb filter mean?
     
  14. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    Excellent question, I wish more people asked it.
    When two drivers playing the same frequency ranges are placed next to each other, the sound waves they produce will overlap in certain places. Where they overlap, or collide, the waves created a null or drop out in certain frequencies as you walk along the stage from left to right. The higher the frequency, the worse it gets. Combing really messes up the goal of even dispersion. 410 guitar cabs suffer from it dearly. And a stack two cabs wide with 410's or 412's is the worst thing ever to happen to the guitar backline. It happens to bass cabs as well, any 410, 610, 810, etc, comb filters. And the guy who sets up two stacks of 410s, 610s, or 810s has no idea how badly he is messing up his output. Some people think it adds to a cabs unique sound, some hate it. In either case, it is a defect. Why do people use 410, 610, 810, or set cabs together side x side? Because they saw the other guy do it, and it is stuck in the zeitgeist now.

    The general principle of driver placement to mask destructive interference with the other driver (combing), and maximize dispersion, is to stack vertically for horizontal dispersion. That is the purpose of backline gear. You want even horizontal dispersion for you when you walk about the stage, for your bandmates, and for the audience on the floor right in front. The combing will still be there in the vertical plane, but only noticeable if you run up and down a ladder. Now you know why there is so much science involved in PA rigs. The audience is both horizontal and vertically arranged in a theater.

    Try this: drop a pebble in a pond and look at the waves radiate evenly. Now drop two pebbles about 6" apart at the same time. You will notice weird wave front interference where the wave from one pebble collides with the wave from another. There's lots of diagrams to Google for that illustrate it better than me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  15. Mr_Martin

    Mr_Martin

    Jul 31, 2014
    Germany

    I have a GK 212_II now, so i want to add another GK 212_II.
    But when i read what "Joe Nerve" said i'm not sure if it will be loud enough.
     
  16. Arjank

    Arjank

    Oct 9, 2007
    Above Amsterdam
    Yes, but the cabs are so close to the ground that you won't hear much mid-highs anyway.... If you like to play reggae this is a great setup ;)
     
  17. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    For practice, okay. But in real life, the people out front will be subject to combing.
     
  18. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    You will effectively be creating a 412. IMO, a nightmare. You will be wasting power and getting more combing. Try orientating your 212 vertically and look at boundary cancellation before simply buying another cab.

    I believe it was Bill FitzMaurice that wrote the only way to fix a 410 or 412 is to saw it in half and stack it on top of the other half.
     
  19. Arjank

    Arjank

    Oct 9, 2007
    Above Amsterdam
    If you're playing on a stage without PA support and the audience is up-close, then yes.
    For reggae this would be a non-issue ;)
     
  20. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    Meaning they are too stoned to notice or care? :roflmao:
     
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