Two differing pickups, two separate passove tone controls?

[Nev375]

I wired my PJ jaguar with two passive tone controls and a 3 way switch in the upper plate and master volume in the lower.

The tone controls come before the switch so they don't interact with one another when the P or J are solo'd. When combined in the center position the tone will follow whichever tone pot is rolled off the most.

Volume is consistent on all 3 settings because the pickups are well matched and it is not hard to dial in 3 distinct tones to switch between.

 

[Antisyzygy]

That explains why we don't see it anymore. Thanks gents.

RobbieK already linked you to this earlier in the thread, but here it is again :

1960s Jazz Bass - Isolated Dual Stacked Vol/Tones - How does it affect tone?

Apparently if you use that wiring scheme it minimizes the output and treble loss. You have to wire the pickups to the wiper like on a Jazz bass, and use 15k summing resistors instead of 220k.

Someone in the thread actually tried it so you could ask them how it worked.

I'm considering trying it myself on a SB-2.

 

[FourBanger]

Off on another tangent, the pickups I like in a PJ are Duncans, SPB-1 combined with a SJB-3. Would there be more trouble than it's worth to bother with different tone values for each or would a certain tone value be appropriate for both the vintage-voiced P and the Quarter Pound J?

 

[SteveCS]

As long as there is resistance between the output and the pickup, it shouldn't matter which side, or only one side, is turned down.
If one is full on, and the other is backed off, it creates that separation required.

Barring a third opinion, I guess we're at an impasse.

Not really. Consider the attached. In the first diagram, with the tone controls wired after the volume controls, either tone control affects the output, regardless of the setting of the volume knobs, so this is clearly bad. In the second diagram, with either of the volume controls at maximum, the related tone control is again connected directly to the output, thereby affecting the output from both pickups. However, backing both volumes off will isolate (by degree) the tone controls from the other pickups.

 

[SteveCS]

RobbieK already linked you to this earlier in the thread, but here it is again :

1960s Jazz Bass - Isolated Dual Stacked Vol/Tones - How does it affect tone?

Apparently if you use that wiring scheme it minimizes the output and treble loss. You have to wire the pickups to the wiper like on a Jazz bass, and use 15k summing resistors instead of 220k.

Someone in the thread actually tried it so you could ask them how it worked.

I'm considering trying it myself on a SB-2.

Backing both volumes off a bit is the same as using the summing resistors, with the added benefit of being able to bypass them for maximum volume should you feel the need...

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I agree that you get more independent tonality with both volumes rolled back, but you do attain a slight degree of independence with only one of the volumes rolled back.

 

[SteveCS]

Off on another tangent, the pickups I like in a PJ are Duncans, SPB-1 combined with a SJB-3. Would there be more trouble than it's worth to bother with different tone values for each or would a certain tone value be appropriate for both the vintage-voiced P and the Quarter Pound J?

I would recommend experimenting. FWIW, I have options of 0.022uF, 0.047uF or both (via a 3-way switch) on my fretless P/J. I tend to use the 0.022uF on either pickup but I rarely use the 0.047uF or 0.069uF on the J, preferring 0.069uF with the P and 0.047uF on the blends. Incidentally, the J is a SJB-3 and the P is a German-made OBL P-60.

 

[Antisyzygy]

Backing both volumes off a bit is the same as using the summing resistors, with the added benefit of being able to bypass them for maximum volume should you feel the need...

I didn't think of that, but you're right. I was just looking at the two diagrams (yours and the one in the other thread) and it seems like backing the volumes off would be adding resistance right where those 15k resistors are. The 15k resistors seem like they're forcing the volume pots to never really be at 100%.

You've made me think. Without the resistors it might be a bit more versatile it would seem...

I've been wanting to try this on my SB-2. The goal was to basically make the neck pickup have the same tone knob as my SB-1, but add a secondary tone for the bridge just to get some different sounds out of the setup. I was thinking a 0.022uf for the neck and a 0.015uf for the bridge. With dependent tones (volumes at 100%) I could get up to 0.037uf which might be nice. Also I saw someone said backing off one volume also adds semi-independence? Huh.

I keep seeing the argument that "if you take treble away from one pickup the other adds it back in" however I think one could exploit that on an SB-2 or perhaps any PJ. The neck pickup produces the meat of the tone, and the bridge pickup lacks much of any low-end. I think by rolling off the neck tone, and keeping the bridge tone at 100%, one could dial in a mid-scoop as long as the tone pots are isolated.

 

[4StringTheorist]

If it is 100/100 at the centre then it will not provide the necessary isolation at any setting as at least one pup is full on all the time.

It's a blend pot from Best Bass Gear. Already checked a previous one of the same model with a multimeter. At center there will be a resistance present, so at all positions there will be a resistance between the pups and the summing point.

Should be aces.

 

[4StringTheorist]

I would recommend experimenting. FWIW, I have options of 0.022uF, 0.047uF or both (via a 3-way switch) on my fretless P/J. I tend to use the 0.022uF on either pickup but I rarely use the 0.047uF or 0.069uF on the J, preferring 0.069uF with the P and 0.047uF on the blends. Incidentally, the J is a SJB-3 and the P is a German-made OBL P-60.

Interesting! I purchased a 0.022 intended for the bridge J pickup and a 0.068 intended for the neck J.