two ? in one

[Robroy]

... so not discernibly louder (even if you were serious).

Yup.

I have to admit that sometimes the "will this make my rig louder" threads annoy me, but that is my problem, not the poster's. They are new and have the same questions I had when I was new. You get a feel for what matters and what doesn't. That being said, even then you can be blind to the affect of things that do matter, even after a couple of decades of playing, if you are not steeped in it. I've been playing since 1998 and I think I have some blind spots.

Although I've played a lot and have gotten pretty good at playing the bass, my "cheapskate" roots have caused me to not delve into a lot of subtleties. A simple example: I've replaced strings four times, though I own six basses. Two times were to get a sound or look. That is, black tapewounds on my five string fretless, and flatwounds on my acoustic electric. The other two were to replace broken strings - and I got whatever was on sale.

I'll bet that those last seven words make a lot of guys around here cringe. Yeah, when people get into "which strings" discussions, I just shake my head because I don't think, at the end of the day, there is that much difference compared to everything else thrown into the mix.

But I think my opinion is based on gross ignorance. If I spent a few weeks comparing lots of different strings I'd probably feel differently, but since I replace my strings only after breaking one, I'm playing mostly with "aged" strings. So testing that is a bit more of a challenge, time wise. And I'm too cheap to replace my strings every six months.

The OP has a valid question, especially for someone who has not been doing this all that long, and some day he'll feel about it the way I do, but with his own personal twist, as everyone here has.

 

[Robroy]

So I have some yes and some no

When I started, my very first cab was a Peavey with a 15 and two 8's. It sounded absolutely horrendous in my application (I only used it in my church). I replaced it with an Acme 2x10. The sound quality was AMAZING, but they were not as loud (much less efficient). I just used a bigger amp to solve that, though. I strongly preferred the Acme. Too bad it was stolen.

i.e. efficiency is only part of the equation, unless there is a gross difference between two cabs, and often just more power can rectify that. Don't give up tone for efficiency, unless efficiency is a major problem.

 

[Jim Carr]

Really depends on the cabinets involved, but in general, no, IMHO. The reason being that either the 210 or 115 will typically be the weak link that limits your clean volume. With a 410, that problem has been designed away.

Makes sense,my amp is two 500w channel so would that still effect the weak link issue?

Two channels helps. You can balance the output to the cabinets. With a single channel 2 ohm capable amplifier, a good arrangement is an 8 ohm 210 and a 4 ohm 410 from the same manufacturer and with the identical drivers and similar cabinet geometry. This yields a rig that can be a 210, 410, or 610 as needed with essentially the same tonal character and equal power to all drivers.

Look, what not just try what you are considering? Live with it for a while. If you need something else, it is not that hard to sell a component and replace it. That is the great thing about modular rigs.

 

[InhumanResource]

Hello folks i have two simple questions,first off will a 2x10 1x15 combo be as loud as a 4x10?? I've heard the more speakers the louder you could get ,if that's true i guess the 4x10 will be louder just want opinions from experience......next question im curious of how the bugera new bass cabs sound,i know they look amazing and have a amazing price but not sure of the sound

I'd recommend you get 1 cabinet at a time. For me, a 210 would not be robust enough in any situation. I'd go either 410, 212 or 115 to start. If you like what any of those offers and want more volume...get another of the same cab. Easiest path to success. More of what you already like. Nice and neat stackability, and you already know it works.

A pair of any of those cabinets listed with the amp you described should be PLENTY loud.

 

[BadExample]

that is my problem, not the poster's

That's a really good thing to keep in mind when annoyed by others, especially in the text based communication we all use now and can't see the grin behind the text. Even in person, if I don't like someone for some reason, it doesn't mean they do or don't like me, and it's my problem. I try to keep that perspective and not dislike anyone. Doesn't mean I'm taking on a positive attitude! That takes way too much energy!

 

[Billybladez66]

I've had 15s in the past, as singles and 2x15 cabs, but I think a 410 is about as all purpose for volume and tone as I have ever needed. Granted my needs may be different, but I've played hundreds of gigs from small bars to big outdoor and have found my single Hartke 410XL has handled all of it with all the tone variation and volume I have ever needed gig to gig. Seems like for me the 15 can't quite get the high end to cut through the mix and keep the soundguy from hollerin " there just too much bottom end in your tone to mix right". But that's just me and mine. Good luck and I hope since it's blind online purchasing your doing it works out the way you want.

 

[Robroy]

I've had 15s in the past, as singles and 2x15 cabs, but I think a 410 is about as all purpose for volume and tone as I have ever needed. Granted my needs may be different, but I've played hundreds of gigs from small bars to big outdoor and have found my single Hartke 410XL has handled all of it with all the tone variation and volume I have ever needed gig to gig. Seems like for me the 15 can't quite get the high end to cut through the mix and keep the soundguy from hollerin " there just too much bottom end in your tone to mix right". But that's just me and mine. Good luck and I hope since it's blind online purchasing your doing it works out the way you want.

I think you are pretty much spot on. In my case, a 2x12 worked just fine, but that was for my needs. I am still very interested in the 15" 3 way systems for adding that upper bass cut through.

 

[Billybladez66]

I think you are pretty much spot on. In my case, a 2x12 worked just fine, but that was for my needs. I am still very interested in the 15" 3 way systems for adding that upper bass cut through.

One if the best cabs I ever played was an unknown 4x12 that was a house cab. We were house band on Thursdays and rotated very regular on the weekends. Never had to move that beast but talk about tone and power. It handled any...and I mean ANY head put on it with killer consistency. We swapped sets with alot of bands so ALOT of different heads were put through it. I remember I never ever wanted to have to tote it. Talk about back breaking...

 

[Phil508]

I have a 2x10 on top of a 1x12 stacked vertically and I like if better than my 4x10. as someone said my ankles don't have ears, and this setup gets closer to my ears and still sounds as good as a 4x10, as a matter of fact, it comes close to my 8x10 (not as loud though)

 

[reggie hall]

One thing I look at too is me having to carry two cabs separate down my stairs compared to just one 410,I just wanted to make sure from a volume stand point I could be just as loud with the 210 115 as a 410

 

[Robroy]

One thing I look at too is me having to carry two cabs separate down my stairs compared to just one 410,I just wanted to make sure from a volume stand point I could be just as loud with the 210 115 as a 410

Depends.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Sorry but the size will not help us help you on volume or how much BOOM you will get.
Some 15's are loud, some are not as loud as the others, some are good enough and others will rattle your teeth clean.
We need make and models to help.
I will use 15 inch cabs for an example.
A Peavey 15 vs an Eden 15, vs an ampeg 15, vs a Hartke 15, their paper of aluminum cone?, vs a Greenboy 15, vs a G.K. 15, vs a Ashdown 15?
All are 15's, all are different.
Even in the same company a 15 will be different with volume and tone. I will use Ampeg as an example.

LF Drivers: 1 x 15” Cast
Voice Coil: 2.5”
Magnet Weight (each): 80 oz
RMS Power Handling: 200-Watts
Frequency Response (-3dB): 50Hz-3kHz
Usable Low Frequency (-10dB): 33Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8-Ohms
Sensitivity: 98dB
Maximum SPL: 123dB
Dimensions (W x H x D inches): 24 x 22 x 16
Weight: 72 Pounds

• 15″ custom US-made Eminence LF driver
• 575 watts RMS power handling @ 8 ohms
• 1″ Eminence APT:50 HF driver w/L-Pad level control
• Frequency response: 28Hz – 10kHz
• Max SPL: 128dB
• Sensitivity: 98dB
• Weight: 59 lbs

• Vintage Portaflex flip-top cabinet design
  • Black diamond tolex
  • Vintage B-15 grille cloth
  • Rugged 15mm poplar ply enclosure
• 450W RMS power handling @ 8 ohms
• 1 x 15˝ ceramic Eminence® LF driver
• 1˝ HF compression driver w/L-Pad level control
• Frequency response: 50 Hz - 17 kHz
• Sensitivity: 99.5 dB SPL @ 1w/1m
• Dimensions (H x W x D inches):
  • 23 x 21 x 14 in
  • 584 x 533 x 363 mm
• Handling weight: 45 lbs / 20.4 kg

 

[BassManKK]

Yup.

I have to admit that sometimes the "will this make my rig louder" threads annoy me, but that is my problem, not the poster's. They are new and have the same questions I had when I was new. You get a feel for what matters and what doesn't. That being said, even then you can be blind to the affect of things that do matter, even after a couple of decades of playing, if you are not steeped in it. I've been playing since 1998 and I think I have some blind spots.

Although I've played a lot and have gotten pretty good at playing the bass, my "cheapskate" roots have caused me to not delve into a lot of subtleties. A simple example: I've replaced strings four times, though I own six basses. Two times were to get a sound or look. That is, black tapewounds on my five string fretless, and flatwounds on my acoustic electric. The other two were to replace broken strings - and I got whatever was on sale.

I'll bet that those last seven words make a lot of guys around here cringe. Yeah, when people get into "which strings" discussions, I just shake my head because I don't think, at the end of the day, there is that much difference compared to everything else thrown into the mix.

But I think my opinion is based on gross ignorance. If I spent a few weeks comparing lots of different strings I'd probably feel differently, but since I replace my strings only after breaking one, I'm playing mostly with "aged" strings. So testing that is a bit more of a challenge, time wise. And I'm too cheap to replace my strings every six months.

The OP has a valid question, especially for someone who has not been doing this all that long, and some day he'll feel about it the way I do, but with his own personal twist, as everyone here has.

Not to hijack the thread but...

Robroy - you know there can be a happy medium between changing your strings once every 18 years and once every six months. I can tell you, unequivocally, that strings can make a huge difference in your sound. If nothing else the many types of strings have very different sounds, then there's different materials and different brands. Anyway, don't let cheap get too much in the way of you developing, or finding, your sound.

To the OP - As many have said the question, as asked, was too vague and open ended. If you asked "with the same brand of cab's, from the same model-line, will 4x10s sound different (yes) or louder (maybe) than a 2x10 + 1x15 stack?" you would have gotten more answers. I would say that, for sure, the two options would have different sounds as far as "attack", "decay" and "timbre", that's the physics of using different drivers, but as to which stack is louder the answer is "it depends.".

I used to use a Mesa Boogie Powerhouse Jr. cabinet with 1x12, 4x8 and a tweeter all-in-one cab. it was loud but I didn't love the tone, and it was heavy and large.

I now play with a custom-made 2x12" in a well-braced, ported cabinet and I am very happy. YMMV.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I've run all kinds of things over the years:

• Started with a 2x12 cab 1966 Fender Bassman and kept blowing speakers out of it for the next 5 years. It was due to poor cab design - works fine with 15" speakers but not 12". They changed to 15" speakers in 1967, but that didn't help me.
• Then went with a Standel amp using a 2x15 cab , which killed everything else in the early 70's (long ago and far away).
• Then I used a GK guitar amp matched with two JBL 112 with horn cabs - killed it, but speakers were part of son's DJ equipment, which he needed back.
• Then used a Yamaha 115 combo - not enough - lost in the mix. Added a Sunn 2x12 to that for OK sound.
• Then got a GK Backline 250 with single 15" cab - worse rig I ever used.
• Added the Sunn 212 with a serial connection to the 115 to get around the 8 ohm minimum load restriction and it worked OK but very boomy.
• Next, replaced the GK amp with an Eden Nemesis amp running 400 watts at 4 ohms. More volume and much clearer sound, but easy to overdrive the speakers in that 100-watt Sunn cab.
• Then replaced the Sunn 212 with an acoustic B410 hooked up to the GK muddy-sounding 115. By backing off the bass EQ a couple of clicks on the Eden Nemesis amp, I got a good sound out of that combination.
• Next got an Eden WT500 amp personally upgraded to 800 watts by the designer of the amp. This is a dual power-block amp with 400-watts per side at 4 ohms or 800 watts bridged into 8 ohms. Ran the 115 out of one side and the 410 out of the other and used the "balance" knob on the amp to get the perfect mix of sound out of the two. Used this set up for a number of years. Only disadvantage to that set up is it's a lot to lug around.
• Finally got a DNA DNS410 cab which weighed less than the acoustic 410 and was an order of magnitude louder (106 SPL sensitivity for the DNS vs. 92 SPL for the acoustic). I currently run my amp bridged at 800 watts into my DNS410 and that covers everything.

Bear in mind that how comparatively loud different cabs are will depend a lot on their sensitivity. My DNS410 is at one extreme end at 106db at 2.83v (1-watt)/1M and that acoustic B410 has a pretty low sensitivity at only 92db 1W/1M. So the sensitivity figures into how loud a cabinet is with the amp you're using.

I'd suggest going with a 410 first and then add another cab later if needed and look at adding a 210 instead of a 115 for the second cab. I'd suggest the 210 because you won't run into the dispersion and EQ problems you will if you add a 115, plus you'll have a nice portable 210 cab to use if that's all you need for small gigs.

 

[reggie hall]

here are a few for example
1.hartke 210xl & 115xl

• Single-Chamber Sealed Cabinet Design
• Two Hartke XL 10 inch Aluminum-Cone Bass Drivers
• Power Handling: 200 Watts @ 8 Ohms
• Frequency Response: 50 Hz To 5 kHz
• Sensitivity: 96 dB @ 1 W/1 M
• Voice Coil: 1.5 inch
• Magnet Weight: 60 Oz.
• Single 1/4 inch Input
• Dimensions: 14 (H) X 24 (W) X 12 inches(D)
• Weight: 46 lb.
• 
  • Specially tuned, duct-Vented cabinet design
  • Precision Hartke XL 15" aluminum-cone bass driver
  • Power Handling: 300 watts at 8 ohms
  • Frequency Response: 30Hz-2.5kHz
  • Sensitivity: 98dB at 1W/1M
  • Voice Coil: 3"
  • Magnet Weight: 100oz
  • Parallel 1/4" inputs
  • Dimensions: 24"(H) X 24"(W) X 15"(D)
  • Weight: 63lb
  
  • Power Handling: 400 Watts @ 8 Ohms
  • Frequency Response: 30 Hz To 5 kHz
  • Sensitivity: 98 dB @ 1 W/1 M
  • Voice Coil: 1.5-inch
  • Magnet Weight: 60 Oz.
  • Inputs: Parallel 1/4-inch
  • Dimensions: 24 (H) X 24 (W) X 15 (D) inches
  • Weight: 88 lbs.
  
  
  Impedence: 8Ω
  Power Handling (cont., prog., peak): 600W, 1200W, 2400W
  Sensitivity (1W/1m): 99dB
  Frequency Response: 50Hz - 15KHz
  Crossover Freq.: 3.5KHz
  Weight: 83.0 lb / 37.6 Kg
  Dimensions: W = 22.25” (56.5 cm), H = 29.75” (75.5 cm), D = 17.63” (44.7 cm)
  
  
  Impedence: 8Ω
  Power Handling (cont., prog., peak): 450W, 900W, 1800W
  Sensitivity (1W/1m): 97dB
  Frequency Response: 42Hz - 16KHz
  Crossover Freq.: 2.8KHz
  Weight: 76.5 lb / 34.7 Kg
  Dimensions: W = 22.25” (56.5 cm), H = 29.75” (75.5 cm), D = 17.63” (44.7 cm)
  

 

[reggie hall]

so there u have the 1. hartke 210& 115 combo
2.hartke 410
3.peavy 410
4.peavy 212

 

[InhumanResource]

Oooh. if I could do it again, I might try a pair of svt 15E's and throw my old Hartke head on it. Those cabs sound REALLY good and a pair should get you through most anything.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Compact cabs and budget cabs and particularly budget compact 210 115 cabs are not a fair comparison to pro 410.

All things more or less equal, which it never is, there is general acceptance, except on TB, a 210 is roughly equivalent in output to a 115.

Tens for highs and fifteens for lows is a nonsense for full range cabs.

Have a read of the vertical believer titled thread. Very many satisfied customers of the vertically stacked 210 pair.

 

[Billybladez66]

Way back when I was poor and all I had was an old Peavy 4 channelnpa with the 2 410 matching columns. Ran that as my rig and surprisingly had great output and tone. From a distance noone knew any better and up close they were always perplexed it sounded so good just being a mixer. I definitely learned respect for Peavy in just performance and durability for something it was not specifically designed for, but maintained under the rigors of gigging. I wish I still had one of those columns, after reading all these posts it occur to me a single 410 column with killer speakers in it might be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[reggie hall]

i heard the new peavy line of cabs were FIRE!!! i never played through a 212 setup im more familiar with 4x10