Uber bassists- I don't get it.

[KevMuso]

The OP mentioned Entwistle and Squire as examples of virtuosos who were doing it right. I agree. They played busily, but did it all within the context of the song, acknowledging the melody at all times. They were playing complex counterpoint that enhanced whatever the other instruments were doing, as opposed to merely using the song as a backdrop and soloing over the top of it. I think of it as playing "inside" the song opposed to "outside". Does that make sense?

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Am I the only one who finds the quote "virtuosos" boring and just plain wanking? Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.
I admire their proficiency, and technique, but then say to myself 'Now play a song'.
There are highly adept players I love- Phil Lesh, Chris Squire, etc. that CAN play that stuff, but somehow always keep the music first. I NEVER thought that John Entwhistle was wanking, no matter how fast he was playing. Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.
I'm not saying everyone should play bass like Chris Hillman, or Timothy Schmitt, there's lots of room for advancing the art, but most hi-tech players sound like they are only playing to impress, not drive the song.
Discuss.

Les Claypool only lays down the groove. He doesn't solo much...much. Fills galore, but basically every primus song is just a consistent steady groove.

 

[Dynacord]

Yes, but my point was, he served the song. Someone playing bass a few weeks could figure out My Girl.

Yes, though like Jamerson, Manring, Claypool, Clark, Caron and Wooten are all capable of playing simple in the pocket support which serves the song when that's what's called for. I think OP is correct with her follow up post that basing opinions on YouTube videos which showcase technique or just solos without the context of the song is less objective than actually digging into their respective discographies. Sort of like basing an opinion of Jamerson on just isolated track videos.

"My Girl" is sort of an exception stylistically for Jamerson in being much more simple than the other songs mentioned. Someone could play the changes to "Aint No Mountain High Enough" with dotted quarter and eight notes too...

And what of someone like Rocco who is super busy without getting in the way?

I remember seeing - decades ago - Stanley Clark play a duo gig with Bobby McFerrin (before "Don't Worry" fame) - one of the most truly musical things I've ever witnessed. Clearly music and not chops for chops sake even if of extraordinary ability.

On the OP's comment "Just about anybody who endorses Fodera" - check out James Genus! Great tone, taste and certainly knows how do play for the song.

 

[Jantelagen]

Les Claypool only lays down the groove. He doesn't solo much...much. Fills galore, but basically every primus song is just a consistent steady groove.

There's few a players mentioned that I'd categorize as outstanding bassists rather than virtuoso, per se. Claypool being one of therm. He serves the song while doing vocals. In the Lennon Claypool Delirium he holds it down. Colonel Les Claypool's Fearless Flying Frog Brigade covering Pink Floyd's Animals album is great example also

 

[Dynacord]

There's few a players mentioned that I'd categorize as outstanding bassists rather than virtuoso, per se. Claypool being one of therm. He serves the song while doing vocals. In the Lennon Claypool Delirium he holds it down. Colonel Les Claypool's Fearless Flying Frog Brigade covering Pink Floyd's Animals album is great example also

Remember seeing him in the Bay Area clubs before Primus playing in a lot of different bands as a sideman. He can absolutely play 'normal' bass if that's what's called for.

 

[minimalist freedom]

The more I play ....the less I actually play!

 

[Acoop]

Not sure what you're going on about. ... You don't like highly skilled players because they're not playing a song you can follow? ... I'm not being rude, just confused. ... Maybe you should have worked on the wording of your 'rant'? ... Because, once one 'is accomplished', on their instrument, they really don't have to justify their ability other than to perform. ... If you don't get it, I'd suggest you work a little harder on your understanding of music. ... Just because the song 'Happy Birthday' is sung, everyday, all over the word doesn't mean it's a brilliant composition.

 

[konfyouzd]

Just because the song 'Happy Birthday' is sung, everyday, all over the word doesn't mean it's a brilliant composition.

But nothing says it isn't either... Only those who hold that opinion...

*insert image of The Dude*

Also, does Sharay Reed endorse Fodera or does he just play one sometime? Because that man can play his ass off and quite tastefully at that. I've seen him with Fender J basses most of the time, but I definitely saw him playing a really pretty blue Fodera at one point.

 

[obimark]

Thats a shame for you. Hasn't been my experience. I guess there are lot of different types of people out there. Imagine that.

Hold on one second- I am talking ONLY your bass playing for your solo. Not with drums and guitar/keys supporting you. So which is it? Completely solo bass you are playing? If so, please post as I'd love to hear your skills.
If not, that is a whole different thing, I can groove with drums and have people stay for 1 minute then.

 

[GreyBeard]

To the OP: EDDIE GOMEZ, This guy plays jazz upright but, his solos are so lyrical and he plays with so much feeling. I've only heard him play with Bill Evans but I'm sure he is on other albums too. Check him out.
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[DrayMiles]

After a certain point of working to achieve technique, you will find players that don’t feel the need to always show it...
But the masses will exert pressure that they should. Whether they be the average punter, an endorsement deal, or a promoter. There is a balance where everything equals out ... In the public and the artist I believe...

 

[FritzM]

The OP has his own opinion. Bass is "Base". Many guitarists are believers in 3 chords and the truth. Many people believe we shouldn't explore space, and so on . . .
I just happen to not agree. Have a nice day!

 

[2F/2F]

Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.

I kind of wanted to kind of agree with you (yes, two kind ofs)...but then this made that impossible.

I'm not into slapping as "A Thing" either...but come on. P-Funk and Sly, man. In all of Musicdom, it really doesn't get a whole lot better than those acts...and Bootsy and Larry. They used it to make truly great, all-time classic music, which few others did.

As for Mark King, well...I think he goes in with all those others you're talking about. The music he created is utter garbage to me, regardless of how technically proficient he is. I still can't wrap my head around who exactly sits down and actually listens to that crap for fun.

 

[smtp4me]

I’m pretty sure Victor Wooten (for one example) would do a great, grooving, and musical job if you hired him to play a country or classic rock tune. But so could a million other players. Victor can do many things most other players can’t. So he does.

This sums it up for me. I'm pretty sure bass virtuosos can lay down a tasty groove as well as anyone, because that's how they started. They have made the choice to do more, because they can. What I find most interesting is how they have taken an accompanying instrument that was not intended to play melodies, and have composed and played complex melodies on it. I can listen to Jaco and Marcus Miller all day.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I's the least I can do. When people all walk off the dance floor anytime the typical bassist (including myself) takes more than a 20 second solo it's all the evidence I need.

Hold on a minute!What dance songs have a bass solo?

 

[hrodbert696]

The thread exploded fast and I haven't read all ten pages, but my $0.02 - Usually when I see a thread like this one, it's someone who has mostly seen the bits of the virtuosos on youtube. Youtube clips get shared around for people to say, "WOW!" but they don't usually capture the overall musical character of what they do. When you see these guys live, it's generally a very different matter.

Exhibit #1 would be the guy who gets ragged on most, Victor Wooten. He played near me a few years ago and I talked my wife into going - this was the tour with four or five bassists in the band. The theater was half full, and you could just tell from the vibe that practically everyone there was a musician. The show was PHENOMENAL. It was NOT choppity slappity wankfest at all - it had wonderful musicality, fun, grooving, emotional, everything you want a show to be. Everyone had times they stepped out to shine and times they laid back to support. My wife, who is not a bassist, loved it. When he did another tour through the area a year later with his brothers, she was eager to go see him again, and loved it again.

 

[TheArchitect]

Not at all. I just said I admire their abilities, but the music leaves me cold- Discuss. Sorta the original purpose of a forum- The free exchange of ideas and opinions. Show me some great links to some of the named players and change my mind- I'm always open to learning something.

That speaks more about you and your musical development than those players doesn't it?

 

[bearfoot]

Sometimes being a virtuoso is a lonely job. (no virtuosic playing in this original Wooten song, which he also sings)

 

[retslock]

I'm not into slapping as "A Thing" either...but come on. P-Funk and Sly, man. In all of Musicdom, it really doesn't get a whole lot better than those acts...and Bootsy and Larry. They used it to make truly great, all-time classic music, which few others did.

I listened to “Hair” by Graham Central Station recently after many years. It should be listed in the dictionary as the accepted definition of funk. Man it’s funky.

What I find most interesting is how they have taken an accompanying instrument that was not intended to play melodies, and have composed and played complex melodies on it. I can listen to Jaco and Marcus Miller all day.

I agree totally with this. The technically skilled players have developed a new way to play the instrument as a lead voice. That’s the idiom where Jaco shone brightest. They have taken us on a journey to a new way of thinking. Having said that, I still love the good old solid rhythmic bass groove that holds the groove together for other musicians to soar over the top of. I still don’t think that was Jaco’s strength. “The Chicken” never gave me the thrill that Jamerson has done with so many great grooves.
I used to own a Victor Wooten album but I just couldn’t get into it. I tried but it all sounded like a series of demonstrations.

 

[Dynacord]

Hold on a minute!What dance songs have a bass solo?

"I'll Take You There" comes to mind as an oldie.