Ultra boutique P bass pickups

[Laurent]

Hey I have a quick question. What is the standard measurement for a vintage style p pickup? and how about for overwound?

My olinto bass has a pickup made by Mas Hino which they said he overwinds a bit and his usual measurements are around 11.5k

It's louder than both my regular Lollar in my Fender and the Sadowsky pickup I used to have, but also has brighter high end. It'a definitely brighter and more clear than the overwound Lollar I used to have. I'm just curious cuz I thought brightness and clarity were always a compromise with loudness. In any case it's a great sounding pickup.

Good question. No simple answer however. It depends by what we mean by vintage, knowing also that some changes happened in the mid sixties and to make matter more complicated, prior to 1965, I believe somebody will be quick to correct me if inaccurate, pickups were hand wound and therefore not always standard. That being said, they had norms in terms of the number of turns on the bobbins.

In the early sixties, I believe P pickups were wound around 10.4 K ohms. After 1963 they started being wound hotter probably around 11.5 K Ohms.

To me an over wound pickup is in the 12 K Ohms and north of that. As a reference the Lollar overwound is at 12.7 K Ohms.

 

[tomich]

Anyone tried Mojotone 70s Precision pickups?

 

[wraub]

Where would a P pickup with a reading of 9.16 K typically fit in? (This is on a hand-wound pickup.)

 

[Laurent]

Where would a P pickup with a reading of 9.16 K typically fit in? (This is on a hand-wound pickup.)

Slightly under wound, resulting in more highs generally.

 

[wraub]

It seems as if most P pickups are overwound... Is this a marketing thing?
I mean... I get that the sonic differences are real... but is the quantity made driven by demand?

 

[Laurent]

It seems as if most P pickups are overwound... Is this a marketing thing?
I mean... I get that the sonic differences are real... but is the quantity made driven by demand?

I think that most stock pickups shipped with basses from the factory are balanced. They are not overwound or underwound. Instruments manufacturers try to offer something that will satisfy all playing styles and music genres as well as being able to reproduce all frequencies musically.

After-market pickups are indeed generally overwound. It's easier to sell something that allows the customer to be louder and more present in the mix than the opposite. The most successful ones are probably the Seymour Duncan quarter-pounder (SPB-3) or the DiMarzio Model P which are definitely hot and overwound.

 

[wraub]

...As aftermarket pickups are predominantly overwound, who is doing underwound P bass pickups? I know Lollar does (but I thought theirs was still over 10 K), and I know Artec has some around 8.0 K iirc.

Asking because, I've come to believe that underwound is part of the key to the P bass sound I want.

I think that most stock pickups shipped with basses from the factory are balanced. They are not overwound or underwound. Instruments manufacturers try to offer something that will satisfy all playing styles and music genres as well as being able to reproduce all frequencies musically.

After-market pickups are indeed generally overwound. It's easier to sell something that allows the customer to be louder and more present in the mix than the opposite. The most successful ones are probably the Seymour Duncan quarter-pounder (SPB-3) or the DiMarzio Model P which are definitely hot and overwound.

 

[tomich]

The Mojotone 70s bass pickups are slightly underwound.

 

[Laurent]

...As aftermarket pickups are predominantly overwound, who is doing underwound P bass pickups? I know Lollar does (but I thought theirs was still over 10 K), and I know Artec has some around 8.0 K iirc.

Asking because, I've come to believe that underwound is part of the key to the P bass sound I want.

I do not believe Lollar does actually; it's not on their site. Maybe as a custom order?
Fralin does a -5% underwound pickup. You could also try the DiMarzio Area P, which is built with Alnico II poles which kind of delivers that airy, musical tone with lots of highs. It's a relatively inexpensive pup, so I would recommend you start there.
Other thoughts, if you're looking for a pickup with lots of highs but not necessarily underwound, the SD SPB-1 is a great pup that gets lots of love here on Talkbass.

 

[wraub]

I could be wrong about Lollar, I may have been thinking of Fralin. My apologies.

The PU I just put in is underwound, apparently, and I like it very much. I went looking for others, and didn't find many.

Thanks to you, and to @tomich, for the suggestions.

I do not believe Lollar does actually; it's not on their site. Maybe as a custom order?
Fralin does a -5% underwound pickup. You could also try the DiMarzio Area P, which is built with Alnico II poles which kind of delivers that airy, musical tone with lots of highs. It's a relatively inexpensive pup, so I would recommend you start there.
Other thoughts, if you're looking for a pickup with lots of highs but not necessarily underwound, the SD SPB-1 is a great pup that gets lots of love here on Talkbass.

 

[Paul F]

I know I read somewhere in this thread that somebody had a Flying Mojo “The Duck pre-CBS” pickup. Did that pickup ever get installed and, if so, how was it? I’m quite intrigued by this pickup and I can’t seem to find any sound clips, or even decent reviews anywhere. Curious to hear some thoughts on it...

Try Klein pickups, out of Texas.
I have his 58. It’s very accurate and he uses period correct magnets formulated and, poured to the specs from an actual 58 pickup. He analyzed the shavings from the original combination of minerals etc. created for this pickup. He does this with the copper wiring as well.

 

[insomehonkytonk]

I've been searching this thread for posts about particular pickups I'm considering and I want to generally talk about Alnico II/III magnets and raised A poles. I play a CIJ PB-57 and want to upgrade the stock Fender Japan ceramic pickup to something period correct but also very warm.

Original 50s Precisions used Alnico V, but some vintage-style repros use Alnico II (Antiquitys) or Alnico III (NP4Vs). Supposedly the magnets emulate the decay of Alnico Vs over 60 years? I see comparisons to Alnico V but not with each other. The IIIs are weaker than the IIs, I've read the IIs are "more vintage" than the IIIs.

Raised A pole pieces were a one-off design for ~1957-1958. The A string was the highest string on the typical 7.25 fretboard radius of the time and thus was unbalanced, resulting in this solution. Fender soon ditched the design. I've read the raised poles can be problematic to set up correctly. Arcane 57 Experience, Klein 1958 Epic Series and Antiquity Raised As feature them. There seems to be a novelty to them. On vintage necks, do they work as advertised?

 

[D.M.N.]

I've been searching this thread for posts about particular pickups I'm considering and I want to generally talk about Alnico II/III magnets and raised A poles. I play a CIJ PB-57 and want to upgrade the stock Fender Japan ceramic pickup to something period correct but also very warm.

Original 50s Precisions used Alnico V, but some vintage-style repros use Alnico II (Antiquitys) or Alnico III (NP4Vs). Supposedly the magnets emulate the decay of Alnico Vs over 60 years? I see comparisons to Alnico V but not with each other. The IIIs are weaker than the IIs, I've read the IIs are "more vintage" than the IIIs.

Raised A pole pieces were a one-off design for ~1957-1958. The A string was the highest string on the typical 7.25 fretboard radius of the time and thus was unbalanced, resulting in this solution. Fender soon ditched the design. I've read the raised poles can be problematic to set up correctly. Arcane 57 Experience, Klein 1958 Epic Series and Antiquity Raised As feature them. There seems to be a novelty to them. On vintage necks, do they work as advertised?

I had the Fender AVRI '58s which had the raised A on them in a AVRI parts bass with the matching neck (7.25" radius). Personally, I would not say they work as advertised with modern strings. With mine I needed to crank down the A side of the pickup in order to get it to balance out, and even so it was overly loud for me. Now, granted, that can be a fairly hard attack, I'm sure you could adapt play style or pluck more lightly and it would be less noticeable. But, at least for me, with Rotosound Swing 66s, the A was far too loud in comparison to the other strings. YMMV, but I see them more as a historically accurate pickup if that's what you're going for, but of little practical use and more detrimental than beneficial. I promptly swapped them for Fender '62 Originals. With the specific pickups you're asking about, I can't say I've had experience, just the raised pole pieces on the Fender '58s.

 

[Laurent]

I've been searching this thread for posts about particular pickups I'm considering and I want to generally talk about Alnico II/III magnets and raised A poles. I play a CIJ PB-57 and want to upgrade the stock Fender Japan ceramic pickup to something period correct but also very warm.

Original 50s Precisions used Alnico V, but some vintage-style repros use Alnico II (Antiquitys) or Alnico III (NP4Vs). Supposedly the magnets emulate the decay of Alnico Vs over 60 years? I see comparisons to Alnico V but not with each other. The IIIs are weaker than the IIs, I've read the IIs are "more vintage" than the IIIs.

Raised A pole pieces were a one-off design for ~1957-1958. The A string was the highest string on the typical 7.25 fretboard radius of the time and thus was unbalanced, resulting in this solution. Fender soon ditched the design. I've read the raised poles can be problematic to set up correctly. Arcane 57 Experience, Klein 1958 Epic Series and Antiquity Raised As feature them. There seems to be a novelty to them. On vintage necks, do they work as advertised?

I do not believe Arcane Experience 57 have raised A poles. Seymour Duncan Antiquity Precision pickups come in 3 configurations, Antiquity, Antiquity Raised A Pole and Antiquity II. The two first pickups are 57 style and the third one emulates a pickup from the early 60's.

I have had Antiquities with raised polls and a Fender Precision reissue and they were a pain to deal with. As others have noted the A string was too loud compared with the other strings.

 

[NKBassman]

I haven’t checked in on this thread in a while. I’m currently using SD Antiquity II pickups and really like them for where I’ve gone with my Fender Highway One P bass. With TI flats it sounds amazing. Thump for days, but enough midrange clarity to not get buried. Nice balanced tone all around.

I’m recording an album right now using that bass and my Broughton P15, and the tone is fantastic. Sits in the mix very nicely.

 

[insomehonkytonk]

I went with the 58 Kleins. I really dug the Klein 1959 Precision Bass audio clips which sealed the deal for me. The 58s are just a bit warmer. If they don’t work out I’ll try something with a weaker magnet and/or no raised A, likely one of the Antiquitys.

 

[insomehonkytonk]

I had the Fender AVRI '58s which had the raised A on them in a AVRI parts bass with the matching neck (7.25" radius). Personally, I would not say they work as advertised with modern strings. With mine I needed to crank down the A side of the pickup in order to get it to balance out, and even so it was overly loud for me. Now, granted, that can be a fairly hard attack, I'm sure you could adapt play style or pluck more lightly and it would be less noticeable. But, at least for me, with Rotosound Swing 66s, the A was far too loud in comparison to the other strings. YMMV, but I see them more as a historically accurate pickup if that's what you're going for, but of little practical use and more detrimental than beneficial.

I have had Antiquities with raised polls and a Fender Precision reissue and they were a pain to deal with. As others have noted the A string was too loud compared with the other strings.

I play flats exclusively, and even with the pickup angle setup, my A string sounds quietest on my vintage 7.25 fretboard. A louder A string is a something I want.

 

[NKBassman]

I've never felt the need for raised poles on a split-P pickup. I've always been able to adjust split Ps well enough to balance things out. On non-split pickups like single coil P or jazz pickups it's much more of an issue for me, especially with tight radius necks. I settled on Nordstrand J-Blades in my Geddy Lee jazz, which have a radiused blade, which balanced things out really nicely.

 

[Laurent]

I haven’t checked in on this thread in a while. I’m currently using SD Antiquity II pickups and really like them for where I’ve gone with my Fender Highway One P bass. With TI flats it sounds amazing. Thump for days, but enough midrange clarity to not get buried. Nice balanced tone all around.

I’m recording an album right now using that bass and my Broughton P15, and the tone is fantastic. Sits in the mix very nicely.

Indeed the SD Antiquity II is a wonderful sounding pickup. I owned that pickup at least twice. It's in the same ballpark than the Aguilar AG-4P60 in the sense that they both have a super warm tone with laid-back highs.

Congrats on the up coming album!

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

I haven’t checked in on this thread in a while. I’m currently using SD Antiquity II pickups and really like them for where I’ve gone with my Fender Highway One P bass. With TI flats it sounds amazing. Thump for days, but enough midrange clarity to not get buried. Nice balanced tone all around.

I’m recording an album right now using that bass and my Broughton P15, and the tone is fantastic. Sits in the mix very nicely.

I recorded an album with a bass with that exact same combo, TI's and the Antiquity 2's. Once I got rid of said bass, my guitarist said "Why??? That was the best bass sound I've ever gotten on a recording". Congrats on the album!