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Ultra short six

A

-Asdfgh-

Apr 13, 2010
15,376
27,590
UK
#1
I have a spare, partially built Les Paul guitar kit. The frets were awful, so I pulled them. I could refret, which I've never done before, or could I make it an ultra short scale fretless? My concern is I don't think that there would be enough intonation available. Am I right?

The other option is maybe seeing if there would be enough intonation available for a Baritone, then use that with synth and octave patches an octave down and also move my hex guitar pickup for midi triggering, also with an octave shift. But would this work with such small intonation changes available?

The third option is fretless ultra short scale piccolo bass, or fretless guitar.

The neck is glued in so sourcing and finding a longer neck that would be baritone compatible probably isn't an option.

Basically, can I do anything with a pile of bits, or should I put it on ebay for pennies?
 
#2
If you want to use the existing [presumably 24.75" scale] fret markers for a [presumably 4 string] bass you can probably do it, but the problem you will likely encounter is finding strings heavy enough to give you any tone/sustain at that short vibrating length. You can try though. Find the heaviest bass string you can (ex: 0.130") and work out some way to string it up temporarily on the guitar. Tune it to E1 and see what it sounds like. If you like it, move on with the short scale bass idea. Good luck!
 
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#3
I guess there are 23" scale Uke Bass Strings available, even ones that should work with magnetic pickups (not sure about finding a 6 set though.) Not sure if you'd be able to find the extra inch and a bit you'll need on those, but perhaps.

Speaking from the "large fretless" perspective intonation is in the fingers, not the bridge on an upright.
 
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#5
Jeff Siddall said:
If you want to use the existing [presumably 24.75" scale] fret markers for a [presumably 4 string] bass you can probably do it, but the problem you will likely encounter is finding strings heavy enough to give you any tone/sustain at that short vibrating length. You can try though. Find the heaviest bass string you can (ex: 0.130") and work out some way to string it up temporarily on the guitar. Tune it to E1 and see what it sounds like. If you like it, move on with the short scale bass idea. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Yes - strings will be a massive issue and require different tuners than I have, as well lots more modification. If I'd thought more before posting I'd have remembered these issues that I had already considered at one point. A baritone might be more plausible. I misordered some guitar strings in a heroic gauge so could see if they are about workable as baritone or similar. It's then an ultra short scale piccolo six string BEADC bass.
 
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#8
Jeff Siddall said:
What about a "short" bass VI? You would likely need thicker strings, like a standard 6 string bass setup, but it should sound and play similar to a bass VI.

For reference: Fender Bass VI - Wikipedia
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That was my original reference point, but I don't think I'd be able to get big enough strings in tuners. In a sense, tuners are easier in that it is possible to buy smaller bass tuners. However, there is not much intonation available in a Tune-o-matic bridge compared to the typical adjustment in a Fender bass, and that's less easy to do anything about unless you are a genius metalworker, which I am not!
 
#9
-Asdfgh- said:
That was my original reference point, but I don't think I'd be able to get big enough strings in tuners. In a sense, tuners are easier in that it is possible to buy smaller bass tuners. However, there is not much intonation available in a Tune-o-matic bridge compared to the typical adjustment in a Fender bass, and that's less easy to do anything about unless you are a genius metalworker, which I am not!
Click to expand...

You might be able to use a stock TOM if you can position and angle it perfectly for bass application. That presumes the holes aren't already drilled. Even then, it might require some testing to find the perfect location, and that could be hard to accomplish in itself.
 
#11
Or make it a fretless guitar, those are pretty cool. If you are set on a bass, look for the strings people put on 25" ABG's. There is a whole megathread here somewhere about "guitar scale acoustic bass guitars" but, of course, I can't seem to find it now to link it for you.
 
#16
My advice would be to save yourself a lot of trouble and forget about it. You won't be happy with the result, for a number of reasons. Either use it as a guitar or sell it.
 
#17
-Asdfgh- said:
Ultra short scale piccolo bass is an option...
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Yeah but a piccolo bass is tuned to the same octave as a guitar so you would end up a "piccolo bass" with guitar string spacing, the lower tension of a guitar (unless you use VERY heavy gauge strings), guitar pickups, guitar scale and two extra strings... Basically a guitar.
 
#18
Deleted member 271037 said:
Yeah but a piccolo bass is tuned to the same octave as a guitar so you would end up a "piccolo bass" with guitar string spacing, the lower tension of a guitar (unless you use VERY heavy gauge strings), guitar pickups, guitar scale and two extra strings... Basically a guitar.
Click to expand...

That was my point :) ultra short scale piccolo bass VI. A guitar. Another one! I'll just make it fretless and claim it's a solid body electric oud that just happens to be strung EADGBE. Actually I'll just string it DADGAD.
 
#19
Make it a 4 string. Put new frets on it in the existing slots. Buy a 5 string set and use the thicker 4 strings. Tune it EADG and it will play fine. You'll need a bass bridge too, of course.

You will need new holes for the headstock. Not a problem. Glue some dowels or plugs into the existing holes. Glue a veneer front and back. Drill the new holes. No-one will ever know.

Edit to say I was thinking about my 22.5" bass when I made this comment. It it headless and just clamps the strings at one end. If you're going to use normal machine head tuners, you really need to think about strings. Perhaps you could string through the body and have a tail piece way up the back to use up the extra length of standard strings.
 
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#20
I've done a few fretless guitars and although I've been playing guitar for 40 years* it is not for the faint of heart! :D *(holy crap just did the math, I should be so much better at it by now :D) I find it much easier to play fretless bass than fretless guitar, mostly because of the much wider palette of techniques that need to be adapted on guitar. I have much respect for guys like Bumblefoot who just kill on fretless guitar. I honestly think regular slide players can probably adapt faster too. Anyway, my point is that a fretless guitar is probably a bit more of a niche instrument than one might expect.

I also want to say that if you've never installed frets before it can seem like a daunting task, but it's actually really straightforward and pretty easy to get a good fret job on your first try, even on a bound fretboard. The gang here in the LC will have your back and help you get there. :) If you want to give it a go, post up here and I'm sure folks will chime in with suggestions, I know I will, but don't want to push it unless you want to go in that direction. :bag:
 
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