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Under powered amp question

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bazzanderson, Jul 7, 2004.


  1. bazzanderson

    bazzanderson

    Oct 7, 2002
    Austin, TX
    I just got a Behringer BX3000T and I'm pretty much satisfied with the power and love the available tones. I'm playing through an old Peavey 2X15" with Black Widows. Here is my question/problem...I play with two guitarists who both have marshall 1/2 stacks. I'm pretty sure at some gigs (non pa supported) I'm going to need a little more power because my guitarists are typical loud guitarists. Is the obvious answer to my problem to just get a higher wattage power amp (thinking 600 to 800 watts...maybe up to 1000) and just run the Behringer through it? Seems like the way to go but I wanted to see if there are other TBers out there who do this...run there bass head through a power amp when more is needed.
    Thanks in advance and looking forward to your replies.
    -Bazz-
     
  2. xyllion

    xyllion Commercial User

    Jan 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Owner, Looperlative Audio Products
    I have no experience with the Behringer amp. So, for the moment I will assume that it is really capable of acheiving its rated output. Increasing power even to 1000W will not significantly change your volume. If you are not loud enough right now, then you probably are in the need for more speakers. Of course, adding more speakers will likely require more power as well. So, you may just be at a place where your current setup is insufficient.

    On the other hand, I'm shocked that a 2x15 can't keep up with your guitarists. Again assuming that your Behringer is doing its job, you should be able to get painfully loud with that rig.
     
  3. lamarjones

    lamarjones Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    if your cab is 8 ohms, then adding a cab to make the load 4 ohms should utilize the power in the behringer more. Not sure what the setup is, but adding another cab might work great.
     
  4. bazzanderson

    bazzanderson

    Oct 7, 2002
    Austin, TX
    Thanks guys. I think I posted this thread prematurely. Tonight is actually my first rehearsal with the Peavey 2X15" with Black Widows. The previous 2X15" I was using was a total piece of this X-Audio cab. Probably a moot (is that spelled correctly?) point. I will come back to this thread tomorrow with the results using the Peavey 2X15".
    Thanks.
    -Bazz-
     
  5. Stinsok

    Stinsok Supporting Member

    Dec 16, 2002
    Central Alabama
    Both guitarist probably need smacking. Is the Peavey cabinet 8ohm?
     
  6. bazzanderson

    bazzanderson

    Oct 7, 2002
    Austin, TX
    Hey Stinsok. BTW...loving the tones I'm getting out of the head. The Peavey 2X15" is 4ohms I'm assuming. It's old and all info has rubbed off of the jack plate. I tested it at a local music store with a BX3000T and got pretty damn loud but solo...you can never tell how loud it's going to be in a band situation. I had band practice on Mon using the BX3000T and the X-Audio POS 2X15". When the guits went to "11" I was pretty well drowned out...But I did notice I was more "present" than with the Hartke 3500...if that makes sense. I'm hoping this Peavey will allow more volume or push more air. The Peavey is alot bigger than the X-Audio. If the Peavey doesn't allow this....I may get a power amp, use the BX3000T and run both 2X15s" if needed. Hopefully this old Peavey solves it.

    But...you're right...they both deserve a good smacking.

    -Bazz-
     
  7. Luigi

    Luigi

    Dec 3, 2003
    NorCal
    I also have a BX3000T and although I'm pretty satisfied with the sound I get, I also feel I'm not loud enough. I play with a heavy handed drummer, two guitars (one acustic) and a keyboard player. For practices I have to really push it. I use it with a couple of Avatars (1x12 and 2x10) to get the full wattage but I have to turn it waaaay up and that makes the amp clip, so the cabs sound like ass when I play loud. I either have to keep it at moderate levels and risk not having the drummer hear me or play loud. I want to save my cabs so I go for the first option. What I did in my last gig, which was at a biggger club, was renting a power amp and use the BX3000T as a preamp. My cabs sounded good on stage and I was able to get some PA support going through the DI out.
     
  8. bazzanderson

    bazzanderson

    Oct 7, 2002
    Austin, TX
    That solves it then. I'll either rent or buy one (power amp) as I need it and use the BX3000T as the preamp. Thanks for all of your input!
    -Bazz-
     

  9. Oh no...here he goes - down the slippery slope of, "Hey, I think I dig this Preamp/Poweramp thing...I wonder if there's a better dedicatd preamp out there..." (and unfortunately there is)...

    Oh well...I guess there's no saving us gearheads! God knows I'm one of 'em.
     
  10. kyo

    kyo

    Jul 6, 2004
    note; if your cab is 4 ohms then you cant add another cab without risk. the behringer head is 4 ohms (as far as i can remember), so it can handle two 8 ohm cabs, but not two 4 ohm cabs. i dont know what happens...but i know its bad :(

    however, i have no idea how power amps work, and they're :cool: probably your solution, so good luck to you
     
  11. kirbywrx

    kirbywrx formerly James Hetfield

    Jul 27, 2000
    Melbourne, Australia.
    Hang on. let me try and figure this out. You want between 600 and 1000 watts, but you dont want to give up the behringer?

    Yeah, i suggest you go the power amp option. If you plan on keeping that idea (the behringer->power amp idea), buy a power amp instead of renting one, because at the end of the day it will be alot easier to upgrade to a good pre amp. then your tone will really kick ass ;)
     
  12. xyllion

    xyllion Commercial User

    Jan 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Owner, Looperlative Audio Products
    Yea, it sounds to me like the Behringer is just not doing the job. BTW, how are you determining whether or not you are loud enough? Are standing right in front of your rig or are you listening from the audience's position? Sometimes standing too close to your rig will make it hard to hear.
     
  13. also before making any power amp or cab decisions find out what rating the 2*15 is... it's pretty simple i think you just use a multimeter and test for the imendance.

    some one will no doubt explain the details but you really wanna know this so you can decide what cab options are availible and what power amp you'll need!

    and also i'd buy a power amp... just because it'll probably work out cheaper if you're a regular gigger
     
  14. bazzanderson

    bazzanderson

    Oct 7, 2002
    Austin, TX
    I happy to report that I grossly underestimated the power/output of this modest rig (Behringer & Peavey 2X15"). I used it last night (although no one else made it for rehearsal) and cranked the volume on the Behringer to a couple of mm under 1/2. Happy to report that the Peavey took it extremely well. The tone was extremely growly (I think because the cab looks to be sealed) and very punchy and loud. The difference between volume and tone of the Peavey vs. the X-Audio was nothing short of amazing. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here but I wouldn't suggest X-Audio cabinets to any bassist that has any sort of active gigging schedule. I will measure the cab but I'm pretty sure it is 4ohm based on output performance last night. After last night I'm thinking I might not need a power amp. I have a gig on Friday at a club here in Austin with no PA support for instruments. I was worried about volume but not now. I'll write back after the gig with an assessment of tone/volume.
    Thanks,
    -Bazz-
     
  15. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i wish i never sold my peavey 2x15
    the 2x15 model came with either widows or scorpions (widows were the way to go). It also came in a deep 18"? and shallow 13"? variety (the deep version was definitely the way to go)
    what i dont know is if the cabinet was 8 or 4 ohms. when i talked to peavey (after selling the cabinet) they seemed to think it would have been 8 ohms as the black widow driver was only available in a 4 ohm version and they certainly wouldnt have made a 2 ohm cabinet.
    I used it with a peavey mark IV head which was rated for 300 watts into 2 ohms, 210 into 4 ohms, and who knows into 8 ohms.
    That said, the peavey 2x15 was loud as hell. :D
     

  16. typical loud guitarists
    >>>Typical word for guitarits, loud!!!

    Vince
     
  17. Lync

    Lync Supporting Member

    Apr 13, 2004
    NY
    I may be showing my age (totally immature 34), but a trick is to use ear plugs. You will hear the bass better and save your hearing at the same time.

    Guitarists are never gonna turn down-that have to compensate for playing such wimpy strings. :eyebrow:

    Still, I have the Ashdown MAG 300 and I feel that it is under powered too.
     
  18. bazzanderson

    bazzanderson

    Oct 7, 2002
    Austin, TX
    Too true.

    I'm 33 so yeah...I know I should use earplugs...I've tried using them over the past 3 years and I agree that I do need to use them but it's just such a strange tone/feeling for me playing and not being able to hear all the nuances of a live performance even if it's just rehearsal. Still...I know I've got to start using them for every rehearsal. I've been doing this for 14 years now and I know I've done some permanent damage...at least that's what my wife says.
    -Bazz-
     
  19. Lync

    Lync Supporting Member

    Apr 13, 2004
    NY
    What?
    ;)
     
  20. lamarjones

    lamarjones Supporting Member

    Aug 27, 2002
    Raleigh, NC
    Get over the 3 month hump, and you will be able to hear those nuances. Its about training your ear. Kind of like having to deal with those callouses when you first start. It ain't fun, but if you are really serious, you know what you need to do.