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Underpowering cab?

Could it be that another important factor which is EQ settings seems to be overlooked 99.99% of the time: very few Bassists run their gear flat, many amps even have a midrange shape/scoop.
In a recent poll on the site the majority of Bassists used very little or no HF units; many who did use them attenuated them down.
It would be interesting to see how most people used their EQ
settings, most Bassists that I see/hear have some boost on Bass and cut around 800/1khz.
Where Bass boost is given and mid is cut you will be given more output from the amp into low frequencies, even without bass boost you will be directing more power there due to the mid cut which many use.
In the days before modern bass preamps you backed off the treble and wacked up the bass.
 
So from what im hearing, There is no loss to volume, tone or saftey to underpowering your cabs? But the real thing that blows the cabs are overpowering and not using the right type of amp/cab/tweeter/woofer?
 
So from what im hearing, There is no loss to volume, tone or saftey to underpowering your cabs? But the real thing that blows the cabs are overpowering and not using the right type of amp/cab/tweeter/woofer?

Attempting to push an enclosure beyond its design limitations damages drivers or has the potential.

Riis
 
Think car: if you are not going full throttle all the time you under power the power line (transmission, tires etc). Is that dangerous? :)

Cabs are most of the time under powered to avoid too loud playing. Yes, turning down the volume of amplifier is under powering the cab.
 
Barefaced Bass - Mythbusters #1 - amplifiers


Myth #1 - A 1000W amp will be so ridiculously loud that it's stupid.
Truth #1 - When driving a perfect loudspeaker a 1000W amp is only twice as loud as a 100W amp. When driving a real loudspeaker that suffers from thermal and mechanical power compression a 1000W amp will be less than twice as loud as a 100W amp, probably only about twice as loud as a 50W amp at best.

Myth #2 - The higher the cab power rating, the more powerful an amp you need to prevent 'underpowering'.
Truth #2 - Generally the larger the cab, the higher the power rating, because it's determined by the power handling of each voice coil added together, the bigger the voice coil the greater the power handling (bigger or more expensive speaker tends to equal bigger voice coil), and the greater the number of voice coils the greater the total power handling. The larger the cab and/or the greater the total cone area, the higher the sensitivity and thus the LESS the amount of power you need to reach gig SPL.

Myth #3 - If your amp isn't powerful enough you risk blowing your speakers through underpowering.
Truth #3 - You will never blow woofers or mid-bass drivers, i.e. the 8"/10"/12"/15"/18" speakers found in a bass cab, because your amp isn't powerful enough.

Myth #4.1 - Clipping blows speakers because it creates DC or square waves.
Truth #4.1 - Clipping does not cause DC. Clipping does not cause square waves.

Myth #4.2 - The square waves caused by clipping mean that the woofer has to stand still all the way in, then instanteneously leap all the way out, then stand still, then leap all the way back in again and so on, which causes the woofer to break due to the harsh movements and the lack of cooling when the woofer is stationary.
Truth #4.2 - If you were to apply a square wave to a perfect loudspeaker it would move steadily out and then steadily back in, because the cone position is the integral of power over time, which gives you a symmetrical triangular wave. However all woofers and mid-bass drivers have sufficient inductance that the square voltage wave from the amp does not result in a square current (and thus power) wave due to the lowpass nature of a series inductance.

Myth #4.3 - Clipping hugely increases the power output from the amp due to the square waves
Truth #4.3 - Clipping only increases the power output at higher frequencies. Due to the lowpass nature of the voice coil inductance very little of this extra power is delivered to woofers. However this extra high frequency energy can blow tweeters or midrange drivers if the clipping is heavy and prolonged. Most rigs will clip at some point during a gig, some on the majority of louder notes - however this gives times in between those moments of extra HF energy for tweeters to cool down.

Myth #4.4 - Clipping is really dangerous to speakers because of the extra harmonics and thus HF power it generates.
Truth #4.4 - The extra harmonics and HF power generated by power amp clipping are no different to those generated by preamp clipping or distortion or fuzz pedals. This kind of distortion rarely sounds good through tweeters, and thus the unpleasant sound tends to protect them from being blown as most sensible people turn the tweeter down before damage occurs.

Myth #4.5 - Clipping is always bad so you should turn down if clip lights flash.
Truth #4.5 - Every bass player will cause their amp to clip at some point on the gig, the dynamic range of bass guitar is too large for this to be avoided. Frequent clipping is not a problem. Only near-constant clipping is an issue due to the lack of cooling time in between 'clips' for the tweeter/midrange driver. If the clip light is almost permanently on, or you can hear the clipping almost constantly, then turn down or reduce your lows.
 
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That’s about as simple an explanation as you can get, without requiring an electronics education to understand it anyway.

Unless of course, underpowering is real and breaking cabinets worldwide on a daily basis.

Just remember that those so called "experts" we turn to in the hope of getting the issue resolved are people that design, build and sell cabinets for a living - so they are those that have a huge benefit from us going on stage, underpowering our cabs, thinking we're safe and BAM. There's a cabinet sale on the horizon.
 
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AC sine wave zero crosses 120 times a second. That's a lot of opportunity to underpower and that's why they burn out when you plug then in the wall. ;)
So you're saying I need to add a rectifier cap to my cab interface below?

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26517533[/URL], member: 53113"]So you're saying I need to add a rectifier cap to my cab interface below?

7ya1y24a77.jpg
You just need a second outlet, that’s out of phase with the first, to plug into simultaneously. Commercial 3 phase power is really ideal, if you can get access to it. If that isn’t enough power, I don’t know what to tell you - an arc welder maybe. :D
 
I think it's an accurate statement to say that all speaker failures that occur with an amp connected are due to overpowering (thermal and/or mechanical) regardless of the "claimed" ratings of the amp and/or the speakers.

The only exceptions I am aware of are damage due to deliberate physical abuse (e.g sledge hammer, chainsaw, flame-thrower) and accidents (e.g. drummer trips over a mic cable and puts the tip of his/her boot right through the front grill and speaker, waiter trips at a wedding reception and drops an entire tray of champagne filled glasses so that they douse your speaker).
 
My understanding, and put simply... If you have a low-powered amp and you're trying to get more volume out of your speaker, you'll be tempted to turn the amp up more and more. If you turn the amp higher than it's designed for, it goes into distortion, and that distortion doubles the stress to the speaker, so essentially you are overpowering it. :)
 
My understanding, and put simply... If you have a low-powered amp and you're trying to get more volume out of your speaker, you'll be tempted to turn the amp up more and more. If you turn the amp higher than it's designed for, it goes into distortion, and that distortion doubles the stress to the speaker, so essentially you are overpowering it. :)
Generally due to the amount of harmonics present in a distorted signal, tweeters are much more vulnerable.

A heavily clipped amp can also generate more total power than its rating might suggest, resulting in overpowering.
 
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My understanding, and put simply... If you have a low-powered amp and you're trying to get more volume out of your speaker, you'll be tempted to turn the amp up more and more. If you turn the amp higher than it's designed for, it goes into distortion, and that distortion doubles the stress to the speaker, so essentially you are overpowering it. :)
What you described is overdriving the amp, not overpowering (or underpowering) the speaker.
I can supply zero power to a speaker and it is underpowered, but OK. Amps are off more than they are on, no damage happens.
I can hook a battery (DC) or a squarewave generator to a speaker all day long. As long as I don't exceed the design limits of the speaker as it applies to the cab it resides in all will be well.
Distortion is not the culprit. Exceeding the drive/cab limitations is.

If you have an amp that can be turned up "higher than it was designed for" then you need another amp and stop buying ones that are poorly designed.