Understanding the bass clef

[gkella]

I hope this isn't a dumb question...
How do you determine what key a song is in from the bass clef?
The clef symbol has two dots after it but they are always on the F line.
Maybe, I am reading too much into the clef itself.

 

[bholder]

Key is determined by number of sharps and flats just like the treble clef (though they're on different lines / spaces on the bass clef).

 

[James Collins]

The circle of fifths is the answer. The sharps and flats are always added in the same order.

As a primer for music theory:

Every key will have one of each note letter. To illustrate. C major has no flats or sharps. D major has 2 sharps (F and C). Eb major has 3 flats.

The notes of each are (7 notes in each)
C major: C D E F G A B
D major: D E F# G A B C#
Eb major: Eb F G Ab Bb C D

So if you memorize or learn the notes, when you see the bass staff, if there are two sharps, you know it is in D Major.

Interestingly, if you sharp the Eb major scale to E major all the notes are sharped. The flats disappear and you get 4 sharps (F C G D).

The order you add fifths is based on the circle of fifths. Starting with C, the order of fifths for adding sharps is:
C G D A E B F# C#

C has no sharps. Each time you move forward you add a sharp in the order of:
F C G D A E B

For flats the order of keys to add one flat is:
C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb

The order of flats added is:
B E A D G C F

So if you see 5 flats you know that you are in the key of Db and that those flats are BEADG.

Hopefully, this helps answer your question fully.

 

[James Collins]

Also the bass clef is also known as the F cleff and those two dots are always around the F note. Sometimes the clef symbol shifts position. Normally this happens between types of instruments. The symbol can be shifted down the clef in the baritone clef.

 

[gkella]

Thank you....

 

[gkella]

The circle of fifths is the answer. The sharps and flats are always added in the second order.

As a primer for music theory:

Every key will have one of each note letter. To illustrate. C major has no flats or sharps. D major has 2 sharps (F and C). Eb major has 3 flats.

The notes of each are (7 notes in each)
C major: C D E F G A B
D major: D E F# G A B C#
Eb major: Eb F G Ab Bb C D

So if you memorize or learn the notes, when you see the bass staff, if there are two sharps, you know it is in D Major.

Interestingly, if you sharp the Eb major scale to E major all the notes are sharped. The flats disappear and you get 4 sharps (F C G D).

The order you add fifths is based on the circle of fifths. Starting with C, the order of fifths for adding sharps is:
C G D A E B F# C#

C has no sharps. Each time you move forward you add a sharp in the order of:
F C G D A E B

For flats the order of keys to add one flat is:
C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb

The order of flats added is:
B E A D G C F

So if you see 5 flats you know that you are in the key of Db and that those flats are BEADG.

Hopefully, this helps answer your question fully.

So..just to confirm I am on the right track here..
If there are no sharps or flats we are in the key of C major
If the is one sharp, we are in G
If there are four sharps we are in E

Thanks Glen

 

[jamro217]

The only key that has a flat in the key signature, but not in its name is F. C has no sharps or flats, all other keys (D, G, A, F#, etc.) have either sharps or are named as flatted keys (i.e. Bb, Db, Eb, Ab, etc.). Hope this helps.

 

[gkella]

The only key that has a flat in the key signature, but not in its name is F. C has no sharps or flats, all other keys (D, G, A, F#, etc.) have either sharps or are named as flatted keys (i.e. Bb, Db, Eb, Ab, etc.). Hope this helps.

That makes sense...the Bb in the F scale....
Thanks..

 

[jamro217]

That makes sense...the Bb in the F scale....
Thanks..

Right. Each key has only one signature and no two keys share the same one. By memorizing the keys by the number and type of accidentals in the signature, you save yourself the chore of having to figure out what key you're in each time. Four sharps = E, three sharps = A... Just count the sharps and you're good to go.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

I hope this isn't a dumb question...
How do you determine what key a song is in from the bass clef?
The clef symbol has two dots after it but they are always on the F line.
Maybe, I am reading too much into the clef itself.

How do you determine the key of a song?
Let's keep this simple; here are two methods.

1. Listen to the song and walk the frets of your G string up the neck. When what you are listening to and what you are doing on the G string sound good together you have found the tonal center of the song. Look down at what note that happened on. That's your key.

2. The other method involves the chords in the song. If all verses start and stop with the same chord, the name of that chord is the key used in this song. That's not going to happen that often, so look at what chord ends each verse. If they all end with the same chord the name of that chord is your key.

Another way is to look at the key signature shown on the sheet music. No sharps or flats it will be C major or A minor. One sharp it will be G major or E minor. I think the guys have already gone into detail on this.

Here is a memory peg for the keys with sharps:
See God destroy all earth by f#irey c#haos...
C has none, G has one, D has two. etc. now which ones are they... well... fat cats go down alleys eating birds. G will have the F# for "fat".
and here is one for flat keys: Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasly cooked.
Now you figure a memory peg for what flat keys. Hint F has the Bb, Bb keeps the Bb and adds the Eb. You take it from there.

Have fun

 

[Drgonzonm]

Does the OP know how to read treble? Then it's a matter of explaining the shift in the relative positions of the sharps and flats.

 

[Matthew_84]

So..just to confirm I am on the right track here..
If there are no sharps or flats we are in the key of C major
If the is one sharp, we are in G major
If there are four sharps we are in E major

Thanks Glen

I edited your post to include "major" to the G and E keys.

The key signature for C Major could also be the key signature for A minor, which is the relative minor of the C Major scale.

If you want to find out the relative minors for each Major key, look at the Major key's tonic (C) and subtract three semitones to find the relative minor key's tonic (A). For example the relative minor of F Major is D minor. B Major is G# minor.

Here's a chart that may help you:


The reason the relative minor has the same key signature is that they have the same notes but they start on a different note (C natural major scale has no sharps or flats, it goes C D E F G A B, and its relative minor, the A natural minor scale also has no sharps or flats, and it goes A B C D E F G. The F natural major scale goes F G A Bb C D E, and its relative minor, the D natural minor goes D E F G A Bb C).

 

[MalcolmAmos]

if C and Am have the same notes how do you tell which key this song is using? Look at the chords used. If it uses mostly the major chords C, F, G it's mayor thus C. If minor chords are being used as the i-iv-v you can bet the key will be Am.

 

[devnulljp]

 

[khutch]

I hope this isn't a dumb question...
How do you determine what key a song is in from the bass clef?
The clef symbol has two dots after it but they are always on the F line.
Maybe, I am reading too much into the clef itself.

It's not a dumb question. If you learn the notes on the bass clef (or treble clef or tenor clef) then this trick works for the major keys. For "sharp" keys look at the last (the rightmost) sharp, the name of the key is one half step above the last sharp. If the last sharp is G# then the key is A, for example. For flat keys look at the next to the last flat. That is the name of the key. If the last flat is Db then then next to last and the name of the key is Ab. And if there is only one flat, Bb?? That, my friend, is the key of F. Every good rule has an exception that you must memorize! And, as always, no sharps, no flats is the key of C.

For minor keys? Eh, I never worried about that! If you are playing from music written in standard notation (and you have to be to use the trick above) you just play your part as written or fake it as usual from the chords as written. If you use a passing note, for example, in a run that does not sound right you just change it so that it does the next time you play it.

 

[Wfrance3]

When new music shows up in the form of Verse, Chorus, etc. with no notation other than just guitar chords above the words, what I do is go to the trusty formula of:

I = Major
II = Minor
III = Minor
IV = Major
V = Major
VI = Minor
VII = Diminished

So, if I'm looking at chords in the scenario described, and see, for example, D Minor and E Minor and pretty much nothing else minor, it's a good bet it's in C.

 

[Lobster11]

Just to make explicit something that has been implicit in some of the posts above: The "key" and "key signature" of a song are two different things. The key of a song is a tonality to which the song "resolves" -- commonly (but not necessarily) the first and/or last chord of the song. "Key" is in the ear of the listener and is a subjective judgment, and sometimes different listeners "hear" the song in different keys. (See, for example, many TB debates from over the years about what key "Sweet Home Alabama" is in.) The key signature is specific to reading and writing music in standard notation, and is determined by the person writing out the song; it specifies which note(s) are to be sharped or flatted unless specified otherwise. The key signature is typically selected to minimize the number of accidentals required in the written notation. So, songs in the keys of both C and Am are typically written with a key signature of C (no sharps or flats), and a song in the key of G in Mixolydian mode might also be written with a key signature of C, etc.

 

[DrayMiles]

There are no dumb questions.

IF they are coming from a place of genuine curiosity... IMO.

 

[Kragnorak]

How do you determine the key of a song?
Let's keep this simple; here are two methods.

Here is a memory peg for the keys with sharps:
See God destroy all earth by f#irey c#haos...
C has none, G has one, D has two. etc. now which ones are they... well... fat cats go down alleys eating birds. G will have the F# for "fat".
and here is one for flat keys: Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasly cooked.
Now you figure a memory peg for what flat keys. Hint F has the Bb, Bb keeps the Bb and adds the Eb. You take it from there.

Have fun

There is a MUCH simpler method that works for the sharp keys. Whatever the right-most sharp is, go up a half step and that's your key. For example, if there are 3 sharps in the key signature, they go in order: F#, C#, G#. The next note up from G# is A, so 3 sharps = key of A.

This rule even works when there are 6 sharps and the rightmost one is E#, because a half-step up from E# is F# Major.

Flat keys are even easier. Just look at the flat that is 2nd from last. If there are 4 flats, they are Bb, Eb, Ab, Db. Key of Ab Major!, simple!

And of course for minor keys, always count down 3 half-steps (minor 3rd) from that.

 

[Kragnorak]

When new music shows up in the form of Verse, Chorus, etc. with no notation other than just guitar chords above the words, what I do is go to the trusty formula of:

I = Major
II = Minor
III = Minor
IV = Major
V = Major
VI = Minor
VII = Diminished

So, if I'm looking at chords in the scenario described, and see, for example, D Minor and E Minor and pretty much nothing else minor, it's a good bet it's in C.

I know what you're saying based on a major scale, but in a chart that would make me nuts! If I see III, I think major chord; if I see iii, I think minor.