Understanding the bass clef

[Blissful_Lad]

There is a MUCH simpler method that works for the sharp keys. Whatever the right-most sharp is, go up a half step and that's your key. For example, if there are 3 sharps in the key signature, they go in order: F#, C#, G#. The next note up from G# is A, so 3 sharps = key of A.

This rule even works when there are 6 sharps and the rightmost one is E#, because a half-step up from E# is F# Major.

Flat keys are even easier. Just look at the flat that is 2nd from last. If there are 4 flats, they are Bb, Eb, Ab, Db. Key of Ab Major!, simple!

And of course for minor keys, always count down 3 half-steps (minor 3rd) from that.

Does this work with Tabs?

 

[Lobster11]

There is a MUCH simpler method that works for the sharp keys. Whatever the right-most sharp is, go up a half step and that's your key. For example, if there are 3 sharps in the key signature, they go in order: F#, C#, G#. The next note up from G# is A, so 3 sharps = key of A.

This rule even works when there are 6 sharps and the rightmost one is E#, because a half-step up from E# is F# Major.

Flat keys are even easier. Just look at the flat that is 2nd from last. If there are 4 flats, they are Bb, Eb, Ab, Db. Key of Ab Major!, simple!

And of course for minor keys, always count down 3 half-steps (minor 3rd) from that.

All these "memory aids" are making my head hurt. If you can remember that three sharps go in the order of F# C# G#, why can't you just also remember that 3 sharps = A?

 

[Kragnorak]

All these "memory aids" are making my head hurt. If you can remember that three sharps go in the order of F# C# G#, why can't you just also remember that 3 sharps = A?

Mine isn't a memory aid. It's how you look at a brand new piece of music and determine the key without memory aids!

All that 'circle of fifths' stuff comes later when you start writing/transcribing music.

 

[Kragnorak]

Does this work with Tabs?

All you have to do with tabs is see which string has the most 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

 

[Wfrance3]

I know what you're saying based on a major scale, but in a chart that would make me nuts! If I see III, I think major chord; if I see iii, I think minor.

Yea, you are right about the proper use of lower case for minor. I put that together pretty quick. For the record, it's widely accepted and considered proper to use lower case Roman numerals to indicate minor.

 

[sawzalot]

Key Signatures

 

[RustyAxe]

There is a MUCH simpler method that works ....

Clear, concise, and correct, and exactly how I was taught as a seven year old kid in 1961.

 

[RustyAxe]

Does this work with Tabs?

How could it unless the tab also included standard notation?

 

[bearfoot]

All these "memory aids" are making my head hurt. If you can remember that three sharps go in the order of F# C# G#, why can't you just also remember that 3 sharps = A?

That's what I recommend. You see them enough, there is no need to remember any such tricks.

And to throw another wrench into the works, all the three sharps really tell you is there are three sharps. If someone wants to write something out in B Mixolydian, they may very well use the 3 sharp key signature, rather than do the tedious and pointless theory exercise of writing out 4 sharps for B-major, and then putting a natural sign every time an A# comes up.

That might be a little unorthodox, but Mixolydian is probably more common than Major in many genres, and the underlying importance with notation is clarity.

 

[madbass6]

I hope this isn't a dumb question...
How do you determine what key a song is in from the bass clef?
The clef symbol has two dots after it but they are always on the F line.
Maybe, I am reading too much into the clef itself.

Key signatures determine what key a sing is in! On any clef! if no key signatures you're either on C+ or its relative minor A-!
Not a dumb question at all !
Won't hurt to do some basic theory research .

 

[Slevage]

When new music shows up in the form of Verse, Chorus, etc. with no notation other than just guitar chords above the words, what I do is go to the trusty formula of:

I = Major
II = Minor
III = Minor
IV = Major
V = Major
VI = Minor
VII = Diminished

So, if I'm looking at chords in the scenario described, and see, for example, D Minor and E Minor and pretty much nothing else minor, it's a good bet it's in C.

Better to use:
ii, iii, vi, for the minor chords;
Probably have to use vii with a raised "o" to denote diminished

 

[non]

i am not the most enlightened when i comes to music theory but if the song is in A major why not just have AM after the bass clef instead of 3 #?
just cut to the chase.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

The order the sharps or flats are shown will be FCGDAEB for sharps or EGBDF for flats. I always teach this to kids as Fat Cats Go Dancing At Eds Bar for order of sharps and Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge for flats (there are many iterations of this pneumatic device) If it's giving you sharps a basic rule is the key is if you see sharps the next note up from the last sharp is the key, if you get flats the 2nd to last flat shown is the key. That should at least get you started.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

i am not the most enlightened when i comes to music theory but if the song is in A major why not just have AM after the bass clef instead of 3 #?
just cut to the chase.

Because key signatures are not all size fits all and sometimes the key it's written in doesn't work without adding accidentals, also if you were reading treble clef and bass clef at the same time like on a piano it would suck to not have the key stated in both key sigs showing where the sharps or flats are. It would also be really annoying to need to delineate which notes are flat or sharp or natural all the way through a piece especially when there are odd chord voicings and modes happening. It's easier just to write a natural next to a note or two.

 

[James Collins]

For people discussing memory aids for the keys...there are literally 12 major keys to learn. Just start reading music, and you will stop needing any of the memory aids.

It is easier to have the sharps indicated than just writing in the cleff AM because you would have the reverse problem where you would know the key but have to remember which notes are sharped.

 

[Slevage]

i am not the most enlightened when i comes to music theory but if the song is in A major why not just have AM after the bass clef instead of 3 #?
just cut to the chase.

Because then you have to "know" and think of the accidentals. The key signature is a visual aid. Also you have to sometimes jump between the notes of the key and accidentals in that key.

Example: A song in the key of G major might also require an F natural or F## depending on the chord progression or modulations to other keys.

IMO, Standard notation is universal and works quite well. Just learn it and don't reinvent the wheel.

 

[gkella]

I always need a way to memorize things.
So to memorize the major chords and the number of sharps and flats..
3502411
A ...3
B....5
C....0
D....2
E....4
F.....1
G.....1
Then..to memorize the flatted scales...take these numbers and subtract from the number 7.
Coincidentally..there are seven major keys.
So there would be 4 flats in Ab, 2 in Bb and so on...
I think this works.
Please let me know if I am incorrect.
Thanks Glen

 

[MalcolmAmos]

What you have posted is correct. Seems like your method works.

IMO that is all that matters.

 

[James Collins]

There was an interesting talk I saw by Victor Wooten. He was talking about how you really only need to know a small amount of information.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

I hope this isn't a dumb question...
How do you determine what key a song is in from the bass clef?
The clef symbol has two dots after it but they are always on the F line.
Maybe, I am reading too much into the clef itself.

I hope this isn't a dumb question...
How do you determine what key a song is in from the bass clef?
The clef symbol has two dots after it but they are always on the F line.
Maybe, I am reading too much into the clef itself.

A little slightly useful history about the clefs:
The bass clef is known as the F clef. It's based on a fancy old version of the letter F. The two dots always surround the F line on the staff.

The treble clef is known as the G clef. It's based on a fancy G, when handwritten it begins on the G line, in print it often makes a little cross hairs around the G line.

The tenor and alto clef's are much more seldom seen, and are based on fancy C's, and are centered on the C line (tenor clef is centered on the second line from the top, alto is centered on the middle ).