Double Bass Unintended chorusing on a live 2 mic recording

[logdrum]

This trio improvisational piece is recorded using a 2 mic recording. No engineer, no EQ, no compressors, we all just self level. I needed to amplify and used the house amp which was very good for EB. It is a Bergantino IP series powered 310 cab with an Alembic FX-2 pre. MY pickup at that point was a rudimentary BP-100 and I think I also forgot the buffer pre-amp that day. It is a trio, keys, samples and concertina/accordion and a drummer with a gong. We all were around the mics, but to avoid feedback I was away from the cab - about 12 ft or so and I was closer to the mic. Because of that, I got some unintended chorusing. I think, the sound from the cab was reaching the mic much later.


Is there a way to prevent this in the future or just use a smaller 1x10. I have better pick up now and will be getting a fancier pre-amp as well.

Here's the recording. It is not standard or pretty jazz. But the piano player is very busy doing straight ahead pretty gigs and if I lived constantly in NM - I probably would too. I also forgot my good bow and had to use a student Glasser that is used to bow the cymbals, I used violin rosin as well. With the BP-100 it was not pretty but it worked well I thought in context.



This was not soft playing. I was chanting loudly towards the end when the gong was being played softly and you can't even hear me.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

This trio improvisational piece is recorded using a 2 mic recording. No engineer, no EQ, no compressors, we all just self level. I needed to amplify and used the house amp which was very good for EB. It is a Bergantino IP series powered 310 cab with an Alembic FX-2 pre. MY pickup at that point was a rudimentary BP-100 and I think I also forgot the buffer pre-amp that day. It is a trio, keys, samples and concertina/accordion and a drummer with a gong. We all were around the mics, but to avoid feedback I was away from the cab - about 12 ft or so and I was closer to the mic. Because of that, I got some unintended chorusing. I think, the sound from the cab was reaching the mic much later.


Is there a way to prevent this in the future or just use a smaller 1x10. I have better pick up now and will be getting a fancier pre-amp as well.

Here's the recording. It is not standard or pretty jazz. But the piano player is very busy doing straight ahead pretty gigs and if I lived constantly in NM - I probably would too. I also forgot my good bow and had to use a student Glasser that is used to bow the cymbals, I used violin rosin as well. With the BP-100 it was not pretty but it worked well I thought in context.



This was not soft playing. I was chanting loudly towards the end when the gong was being played softly and you can't even hear me.

Would a BP 100 feedback for this kind of music? And personally, I can not see the idea of being 12 feet away from the amp, I try to make it work together with the sound of the bass. Just my 2 c.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Chorus song comes from a time delay between two identical signals. That can be a larger distance of two microphones more or less in line with the sound source or sending the sound source from two different places that are in some larger distance more or less in line with the recording mic. In your case probably the latter the sound sources being the bass acoustically and amplified.
Chorusing gets less if the amplitude of both sources differ more. In your case the amplifier was louder, but since the bass was closer to the sound source, the radiation towards the mic was probably similar to the louder amp in a larger distance.

 

[logdrum]

Would a BP 100 feedback for this kind of music? And personally, I can not see the idea of being 12 feet away from the amp, I try to make it work together with the sound of the bass. Just my 2 c.

My eyes saw 1-2 feet so editing previous comment. That Bergantino /Alembic although excellent for BG is a beast for UB. It had the worse mid and bass adjustment for UB and made my bass feedback easily. It was a very narrow region where you could be heard or it howled. If I had a 1x10 or even my Fishman Loudbox or maybe a Phil jones with smaller drivers, I could just be near the amp.

 

[logdrum]

Chorus song comes from a time delay between two identical signals. That can be a larger distance of two microphones more or less in line with the sound source or sending the sound source from two different places that are in some larger distance more or less in line with the recording mic. In your case probably the latter the sound sources being the bass acoustically and amplified.
Chorusing gets less if the amplitude of both sources differ more. In your case the amplifier was louder, but since the bass was closer to the sound source, the radiation towards the mic was probably similar to the louder amp in a larger distance.

The interesting is if is a larger ensemble with more bodies. I do not get this chorusing. I was surprised 12 ft made a difference and enough to create a chorus effect. I haven't listen to this recording since it was made and I know I had no effects at all.

 

[logdrum]

Can't wait for getting the EBD-2 with fancy notch and HPF

 

[sean_on_bass]

Bring the amp right next to you and if it's too loud, turn it down. The acoustic sound and amp sound will combine into one sound. I think its essentially for an upright bass player to be within close proximity to the amp unless you are playing at super high volume levels more like an electric bassist.

Also, keep in mind the room will likely decide whether you get this chorusing effect too. Might happen in one room and not the other...lots of variables there.

 

[logdrum]

Bring the amp right next to you and if it's too loud, turn it down. The acoustic sound and amp sound will combine into one sound. I think its essentially for an upright bass player to be within close proximity to the amp unless you are playing at super high volume levels more like an electric bassist.

Also, keep in mind the room will likely decide whether you get this chorusing effect too. Might happen in one room and not the other...lots of variables there.

Yeah, I'll do that next time. I did not hear the chorusing until the recording was done. That amp/preamp combo was not UB friendly. I will do the math later but it looks for that distance it was around 10 - 20ms of delay, enough to produce a chorusing effect.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

A bit below 10 ms. Around 9 ms, I think.

 

[AGCurry]

You will avoid "chorus" from two microphones when they are positioned coincidentally, in an X/Y (mics with cardioid pattern) or Blumlein (bidirectional mics).

Otherwise, there is the 3:1 rule:
"When using two microphones to record a source, place the second mic three times the distance from the first mic that the first mic is from the source."

Obviously, the rule is harder to interpret when the source is "large," like a group of musicians.