Unrealistic Plans

[Nev375]

Bingo! That's my point! None of them have played in a band before, so I would put it down to a lack of experience, and there's not been much in the shape of new material.

Also those mentioning the cost factor, right now I don't think we could afford it thanks again for your opinions, they are appreciated

I would suggest opening your mind to the possibility of it and not say anything negative about the subject to them. I've read about some famous songwriters and groups sitting down and writing several songs a night. And who knows if someone in the group can come up with a way to finance the venture or knows someone who may have the equipment.

All I know for sure is that when I was new I've been in situations where I've done things in bands that other people feel were absolutely remarkable. I once met a guy in a music store that liked my bass playing and walked up to me and said... do you want a gig? I stupidly said sure without thinking about it and he handed me a set list of 4 hours of music that I'd never heard before and he told me to be at the venue at 8PM on Saturday and to bring my gear. I said "ok" again without thinking then I just went home and started tracking down music. 4 hour-long sets learned in under 4 days.

No one told me that was supposed to be challenging. I just assumed every bass player must have to do this all the time. So I set down and did it. Saturday came, I showed up, was introduced to the band, who had no idea I was coming or who I was. The singer I had met assured them to relax, it would be ok... and he was right. I played my ass off with the guys, fell right into place and sounded great. They told me I was way better than their regular bassist who bailed on them for some family emergency. They really wanted me in the band, and I wanted to be in, but they were loyal to their old friend.

My point is, that if you don't have a reason to think you can't do something, then maybe you can. But no, I'll never accept a gig like that again unless I know it's going to be more than one night.

 

[mellowinman]

The answer is simple: fire the members who are planning the album. And hire a horn section. The answer is always a horn section!

Tortoiseshell pickguard.

That is ALWAYS the answer.

 

[odineye]

What is the unrealistic part? That a freshly formed band exhibiting chemistry can record an album after a few rehearsals and you said they are learning the material quickly?

I don't see how that's unrealistic at all. Unusual perhaps...

+1

And, you never know where that enthusiasm can lead to. Perfect example is a couple of friends of mine. First time I saw them a few years ago all I could think was EEEWWWW... this is really bad. And, they were talking about recording, and getting bigger gigs. I couldn't see it, but they were friends, so I sat there and clapped and smiled between songs and even helped out where I could. Long story short; Three years later they have a couple of CD's, they're playing everywhere and even opening for some good regional acts. They sound great, have fun doing it and I love to go and watch them when I get the chance. Of course the running joke with my guitar player and I (who supposedly have all the experience) is, "How the @#$% did that crappy garage band full of old men get here?". But the fact is, they're a great band who draws a large crowd and makes a good amount of money. Just imagine if someone had nailed their shoes to the floor with all that you can't do it that way talk...

 

[IPYF]

Also those mentioning the cost factor, right now I don't think we could afford it thanks again for your opinions, they are appreciated

Walk before you can run in this case. Focus in on the writing. If you think you can't afford to make the record then you definitely can't afford it. Especially with inexperienced musicians you'll end up with an unfinished or crappy record after your allotted finances are used up, or in the worse case (with which I am very intimate) you'll end up in a stupid amount of debt because you have a massive blow out on studio time.

 

[two fingers]

Walk before you can run in this case. Focus in on the writing. If you think you can't afford to make the record then you definitely can't afford it. Especially with inexperienced musicians you'll end up with an unfinished or crappy record after your allotted finances are used up, or in the worse case (with which I am very intimate) you'll end up in a stupid amount of debt because you have a massive blow out on studio time.

Sage advice. PLEASE learn from those of us who had to do it the hard way. Just WANTING something to be true does not MAKE it true.

 

[mellowinman]

Walk before you can run in this case. Focus in on the writing. If you think you can't afford to make the record then you definitely can't afford it. Especially with inexperienced musicians you'll end up with an unfinished or crappy record after your allotted finances are used up, or in the worse case (with which I am very intimate) you'll end up in a stupid amount of debt because you have a massive blow out on studio time.

When my former band made our CD, we used our studio time very wisely. Why? We had played the songs quite a lot of times, but more importantly, we had RECORDED them quite a few times! We used basic 4-track technology to perfect not only the arrangements and songs, but to become better at the PROCESS.

And before we took those songs into the studio, we played the rough tapes to people with real experience, and got feedback. We didn't know about Cowboy Measures, and our intros were too long, and we fancied ourselves as "artistes" before we were "songcrafters," and we were set up for some HUGE failures, but we did take that time, and hone the craft a bit, and took the advice, and we made a pretty darn good CD.

Too bad it sounded like the late seventies, right when grunge was the most popular form of music...

...but that's another story.

 

[IPYF]

When my former band made our CD, we used our studio time very wisely. Why? We had played the songs quite a lot of times, but more importantly, we had RECORDED them quite a few times! We used basic 4-track technology to perfect not only the arrangements and songs, but to become better at the PROCESS.

And before we took those songs into the studio, we played the rough tapes to people with real experience, and got feedback. We didn't know about Cowboy Measures, and our intros were too long, and we fancied ourselves as "artistes" before we were "songcrafters," and we were set up for some HUGE failures, but we did take that time, and hone the craft a bit, and took the advice, and we made a pretty darn good CD.

Too bad it sounded like the late seventies, right when grunge was the most popular form of music...

...but that's another story.

Our problem wasn't competence. It was that we didn't realise what we were going to need before we hit the studio. We had a dream and a good pre-production disc which we had recorded ourselves. There was little songwriting left to do. We knew our parts intimately and we know how to work in a studio but it wasn't enough.

Our problem was that we didn't realise just how perfect we needed to get the record. That was stupid really. We knew each other and what we were all about but we failed to acknowledge the impact that would have. We simply never settled for 'near enough is good enough' for any take on the entire disc.

The good thing is that the record is 100% perfect for us. There are no cut corners. The bad part is that it cost about 6 times what we originally budgeted for. We also started in 2011 and I think we might be done with it by the end of this year if we're very fortunate. I'll never make a record like it again. The experience has forced me to consider that a more raw approach to production would be preferable for future efforts.

But yeah. Story for another more broad thread I guess but it's good to illustrate the dangers and it is a good example of unrealistic expectations I guess.

 

[Lilgray]

It's fun to dream and pretend and imagine. Unless they're booking studio time on your dime quit being a debbie downer.

I agree. Some people like dreaming - it inspires them. Or, some people underestimate what it takes and need to learn firsthand. Part of being wise is giving others the space to learn on their own. No need for sour puss unless they are asking you for $$$ - Honestly, they won't listen to you anyway. I mean, who does? We've all been there!

...and tortoise shell pick guards never hurt.

 

[WolstenStears]

I'm not saying that they can't dream of it, I'm just a bit apprehensive that they're failing to consider just how much it takes to get tracks. When my first band recorded our first two song, it took up a whole day. For two songs!

Maybe I should have asked in my original post how do I say to the others its not as simple as pushing the record button and playing?

 

[IPYF]

When my first band recorded our first two song, it took up a whole day. For two songs!

You're definitely not ready to record, in my opinion..
One day for two songs is very very quick for a full band recording. For a demo, no worries. But for an album, depending on genre, the timeframe will definitely be much longer than that, even if you're very good and you're willing to cut corners.

 

[WolstenStears]

One day for two songs is very very quick for a full band recording. For a demo, no worries. But for an album, depending on genre, the timeframe will definitely be much longer than that, even if you're very good and you're willing to cut corners.

This was my other band, but I forgot to say they were demos, my bad. Our EP took us months due to various problems, but that's another story...

I've spoke to the other band and said while it would be great to get an album done, we should concentrate on getting gigs and getting demos done first so we can get a rough idea of what sounds good.

 

[Raymeous]

So, I've recently co - formed a new 4 piece originals band with the guitarist from an older failed attempt. Its looking good so far musically, the two new members fit in well and have learned the songs fairly quickly.

But I have a problem.

I have another band I've been a member of for a few years now, and we're releasing our first 4 track EP in the summer (done completely independently btw ). Meanwhile the other three members of my new band are away discussing an album already! We've only practiced twice as well! I've spoke about it to them and they still carry on planning it :scowl: what can I do? (Without quitting, which seems to be a standard piece of advice here )

Thanks

So are they just planning (read "Dreaming") or are they actually doing things that will make their "plan" a reality?

After you can answer that, you can probably answer your own question as to whether or not its worth your time.

 

[WolstenStears]

Sorry if I seem to be dragging this back from the dead, thought i'd give an update after a few months

I spoke to the guys and managed to show them that we weren't ready to go straight into recording an album, and that gigs should be the priority. We've now played over 10 gigs since, and are attracting attention from event promoters.

Also, at the end of last month, we began recording a 4 track EP at a friend's studio, with material we know back to front and is enjoyed by those who listen to us.

Everyone seems to be a winner in the end

 

[Joe Louvar]

Sorry if I seem to be dragging this back from the dead, thought i'd give an update after a few months

I spoke to the guys and managed to show them that we weren't ready to go straight into recording an album, and that gigs should be the priority. We've now played over 10 gigs since, and are attracting attention from event promoters.

Also, at the end of last month, we began recording a 4 track EP at a friend's studio, with material we know back to front and is enjoyed by those who listen to us.

Everyone seems to be a winner in the end

It sounds like you're all having fun now - way cool. Thanks for the update, and cheers.

 

[IPYF]

Sorry if I seem to be dragging this back from the dead, thought i'd give an update after a few months

I spoke to the guys and managed to show them that we weren't ready to go straight into recording an album, and that gigs should be the priority. We've now played over 10 gigs since, and are attracting attention from event promoters.

Also, at the end of last month, we began recording a 4 track EP at a friend's studio, with material we know back to front and is enjoyed by those who listen to us.

Everyone seems to be a winner in the end

Good job, and thanks for the update. Hope you're enjoying yourselves.

 

[Milk]

Ive been in a band where the band leader was completely deluded. he had barely started to play guitar, could not really sing well, had limited experience with songwriting and paid for studio time to release **** beginners songs. he had merchandise done before we even had a show! he put stickers everywhere around the city.... he kinda thought he was the next Jim Morrison (his lyrics were bad poetry) It was a real embarrassment. That record was never released too, after I left they started the recording over (even though that embarrassment of an album was nearly finished...). The band kept going for ten years (I was in it in it's early months) released three self produced records, kept doing shows and i'm sorry to say the sound never really improved and neither did they ever build a following. In a local mag their last EP got a 1 out of 5 stars review, and local mags are always nice to local bands normally, if they think they're bad, they just won't review them... It's nice to dream but sometimes people should just be told they are dreaming too hard and don't have what it takes... it would be one thing if the ambitious but green songwriter had turned into a great artist worthy of his early ambitions...it just never happened.

Anyway, you're not in a band like that as far as I can tell but be careful. Ambition and dreams are good, but they also need to come with a good sense of reality and a critical mind. I think one of the best thing an artist can have is a good critical mind about his own creations. Thing though is that it IS hard to be objective about your own music. I find people are either too hard on themselves, or more often, think they're way better than they actually are

 

[Milk]

Oh im dumb I didn't see this was an old thread that got an update....

:-x

 

[WolstenStears]

Thanks guys, i'm really glad with how it's now going.

If you're interested, here's a fairly decent mix we've had back from the first track, any feedback is appreciated, even if its negative

https://soundcloud.com/andrewstears/indigo-16-hold-on

 

[newmusicmichael]

I'm happy for them to talk about demos or 1 or 2 tracks, but they're meaning a 10 song (at least) mastered album. They hadn't even thought about demos...

Huh. Not sure jumping to an album is the best way to go in this day and age anyways. Best to do a couple EP's, use the proceeds from those to fund the next stage, get better billing, etc.

 

[ImNotJoel]

It sounds like your just worried about them jumping the gun. Just let them know were your at but you can't fault them for wanting to be serious. Sounds like you may just be the standard setter which is good just tell them when we all feel a hundred percent about our material then we can think about recording. Better they have goals and drive then no motivation.