Unusual neck construction help

[MPU]

I remember seeing and reading about neck construction where a u-shaped slot was routed in the maple neck and slot shaped core made of some lightweight wood was glued in the slot, maybe with carbon fiber cloth. I can’t remember who or where that was, I’m only sure it was somewhere in the net. Does somebody remember seeing or reading that same thing?

 

[GMC]

I remember seeing and reading about neck construction where a u-shaped slot was routed in the maple neck and slot shaped core made of some lightweight wood was glued in the slot, maybe with carbon fiber cloth. I can’t remember who or where that was, I’m only sure it was somewhere in the net. Does somebody remember seeing or reading that same thing?

Sorry I don't, however...you could use an Aluminium Box truss rod instead.

 

[MPU]

Nah, too easy solution to an non-existing "problem" I'm looking for ways to make the most cf neck sound out of wood neck and also making a very lightweight neck.

 

[Lo-E]

I believe Parker necks were made of a very lightweight, stiff softwood (spruce or redwood, I think?) and then skinned with a CF outer shell but I’m going by memory here, and I’m not sure I trust my memory all that much.

 

[MPU]

I know Parker, that's how I've made several necks. The one I'm trying to find was just like a normal maple neck, just with a spruce or redwood core.

 

[micguy]

I remember seeing and reading about neck construction where a u-shaped slot was routed in the maple neck and slot shaped core made of some lightweight wood was glued in the slot, maybe with carbon fiber cloth. I can’t remember who or where that was, I’m only sure it was somewhere in the net. Does somebody remember seeing or reading that same thing?

Sounds like a Steinberger, but with a bit of confusion about specifics.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I found out the hard way (when I dropped it) that Steinbergers were built like boat hulls, with gelcoat sprayed in a mold and then filled solid with random strand CF and resin laid up in layers. No wood core or voids of any kind, and no trussrod either, the relief was cast into the mold.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Sounds like a Steinberger, but with a bit of confusion about specifics.

Synapse:

• Cybrosonic technology combines patented Steinberger Graphite U-channel with a truss rod to create a stable yet adjustable "hybrid" neck with the same definition, clarity and focus, but with the added "warmth" of a 1-piece hard maple neck according to the company.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I remember seeing and reading about neck construction where a u-shaped slot was routed in the maple neck and slot shaped core made of some lightweight wood was glued in the slot, maybe with carbon fiber cloth. I can’t remember who or where that was, I’m only sure it was somewhere in the net. Does somebody remember seeing or reading that same thing?

We've had several long discussions here on LC about building necks by that method, and I've argued that it seems like a great workable idea; a way to make a light weight neck that's strong and stable. I've never specifically built one like that. Several of my Luthier buddies that I've talked to about it have made some experimental prototypes. I believe Rob Allen has. He's been messing with truss rod-free guitar necks for his own experimental guitars.

The goal was to make the neck lighter weight and more flexible (for tone reasons) than an all-hardwood neck, but with good enough stability that it didn't need a truss rod.

 

[CH Design]

I remember seeing and reading about neck construction where a u-shaped slot was routed in the maple neck and slot shaped core made of some lightweight wood was glued in the slot, maybe with carbon fiber cloth. I can’t remember who or where that was, I’m only sure it was somewhere in the net. Does somebody remember seeing or reading that same thing?

I remember reading/seeing that. If I’m remembering right, it was a redwood core with carbon fibre laid in the seam between it and the maple “skin”. I think it was Martin Keith Guitars.

 

[JParsons]

I know of a few looths using this method - although I'm not sure what size U-channel you're imagining.
They use something about 5/8" or more wide. From what I can tell, they skin the insert, which is usually spruce, then embed that into the channel. Dion James and his shop-mate Tuna-Tone do this.

 

[MPU]

I remember reading/seeing that. If I’m remembering right, it was a redwood core with carbon fibre laid in the seam between it and the maple “skin”. I think it was Martin Keith Guitars.

That sounds like the one I'm looking. Now the question is how do I find that long gone site again?

 

[boxerrider]

That sounds like the one I'm looking. Now the question is how do I find that long gone site again?

Wayback Machine - Internet Archive: Wayback Machine copy & paste Martin Keith Guitars in the "Browse History" search box. There are archives from different dates shown at the top of the search results. You may have to search through them to find what you want, and you may not find it at all, although I have had good luck with it at times.

Enjoy!
Jeff

 

[CH Design]

That sounds like the one I'm looking. Now the question is how do I find that long gone site again?

You could try emailing Martin. I bought some truss rods off of him many years ago. He seemed pretty easy going.

 

[Haroldo]

Here is the TunaTone website gallery. About 1/3 of the way down there's something akin to what you're describing (though not precisely).

Gallery 3 — TunaTone Instruments

 

[MPU]

A bit like it for sure.

 

[Keith Guitars]

OP - the one you're remembering is probably mine - redwood core inside a maple "shell" with a CF layer between.
I posted pictures of it some time ago.
On my necks, the core was/is not just a straight insert - it was conical, essentially the same shape as the neck minus a consistent amount all around.
The first ones were made with a pin router and some creative templates.
It's a lot easier with CNC obviously.
Please feel free to PM me directly if you have any questions.
I was very happy with the results of those necks - very strong and stable, lighter and stiffer than a solid maple neck, and still a very warm/organic sound compared to a solid CF neck.
Plus, it's much more 'low-profile' visually - it just looks like a regular wooden neck (vs. the approach of putting a CF "skin" on a carved wooden neck).

Cheers,
Martin

 

[Keith Guitars]

I know of a few looths using this method - although I'm not sure what size U-channel you're imagining.
They use something about 5/8" or more wide. From what I can tell, they skin the insert, which is usually spruce, then embed that into the channel. Dion James and his shop-mate Tuna-Tone do this.

Yes - Dion does this, as does Burton LeGeyt (who I think introduced the technique to Dion). TunaTone learned it from Dion for sure.
Mike Kennedy / Indian Hill Guitars also does this. We all know each other - it's a really small world.
My approach is different as detailed above, since the insert in my case is not a straight piece but rather a fully carved conical shape, the same basic geometry as a neck.
The insert is 1/2" thick at the center - with a nominal 1/4" fretboard, that leaves .075-.100" of exterior "shell" after everything is carved to shape. When carving necks with exterior shells made from some woods (mahogany, e.g.) I sometimes discover epoxy in the pores that has soaked through from doing the CF layup.

The idea is to put the CF as close to the back surface of the neck as possible - this is where it has the greatest mechanical advantage.
It's great advantage is its tensile strength, balanced by the excellent compressive strength of the fingerboard.
With those two aspects in play, you can make the middle of the neck out of something nice and pretty-sounding - redwood, spruce, basswood...just about anything, honestly.
Even Balsa would probably work, or foam. The Klos carbon necks are foam-core.

Cheers,
Martin

 

[MPU]

Hi Martin,
thanks for your reply. I’m sure it was your necks I’m talking about. I’ll send you PM if I have more questions when I start making the neck.
Marko

 

[Dave Higham]

Do you know about Dragon Plate?
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]