I posted a week ago on muddy sound, and I mentioned my amps, mainly the peavey stuff and the new fender Adam Clayton bass amp. My basses used with the fender ACB50 were a stingray special 5 HH and a music man bongo 5 HH. I got the most complaints from the guitar player about the bongo and that amp having a muddy sound. Fast forward to this past Thursday. I used my ampeg SVT vr with the heritage 410 HLF cabinet with a stingray 4 H. We played for a little bit and then the last 30 minutes I went and got my bongo out. When we were finished playing, he told me my bongo sounded a lot better than the stingray did and the stingray actually sounded muddy to him. Now I’ll agree I truly favor my bongo and it did sound different. The bass sounded deep and powerful and with the stingray I would describe it as more midrangey but not necessarily muddy. I’m believing what some of you guys say about him needing to adjust his eq as well. I’m just wondering what his definition of muddy is. He complains about not being able to hear the singers when we practice, but we don’t use microphones when we practice either. I’m just wondering if I could get better use out of the fender ACB50 when we actually play live. Different room and microphones. My thing is that the SVT was super loud and when I got my bongo out I swear felt tremors, but he didn’t seem to think it was too loud. But he thinks a 50 watt amp is so loud he can’t hear the singers. And the 50 watt amp isn’t even turned up halfway. So I’m confused.
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Update on muddy sound
- Thread starter Cory rich40
- Start date
A 50 watt amp turned up halfway during a practice with no PA for the singers will usually COMPLETELY drown them out. I practice with a 25W amp barely cracked open; I talk nearly as loud as the bass sounds. All you need is enough volume for you and the band to hear what you're playing. My guess is that the guitarist is too loud and you're turning up more than needed to hear yourself in competition with the guitar. At 50% of the knob range on my old 50W Bassman the amp is very loud indeed! (But it's a tube amp). Keep in mind that volume or gain controls often give you most of your volume in the first 50 to 75% of the knob's sweep range. Setting "4" is not twice as loud as "2"...it may be considerably louder.
"Muddy" is a different issue. Normally that would mean not very bright, with very little treble. That's a matter of EQ and your strings. I play dead flats (and I mean 20 to 50 year old dead flats) and I'm not accused of being muddy.
Try adding treble on your amp and turning down the bass frequency. It may make notes more distinct. I strongly suggest that you bring a small digital pocket recorder to practice and record what the band sounds like; it will give you a better educated opinion...and evidence as to whether or not you are muddy.
BUT - remember, YOU are the bass player. You are in charge of the sound. Respect your own opinion. If needed, change your EQ, and if still needed, change strings to a brighter string set.
"Muddy" is a different issue. Normally that would mean not very bright, with very little treble. That's a matter of EQ and your strings. I play dead flats (and I mean 20 to 50 year old dead flats) and I'm not accused of being muddy.
Try adding treble on your amp and turning down the bass frequency. It may make notes more distinct. I strongly suggest that you bring a small digital pocket recorder to practice and record what the band sounds like; it will give you a better educated opinion...and evidence as to whether or not you are muddy.
BUT - remember, YOU are the bass player. You are in charge of the sound. Respect your own opinion. If needed, change your EQ, and if still needed, change strings to a brighter string set.
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I’m always going to lean toward the bongo, so as always, I thought it sounded awesome. But Thursday it just happened to sound even more awesome through that SVT. To me it sounded good through the fender ACB50. He also had a problem with the darkglass amp I used to have. Said I was way too loud and again, I’m sure my SVT is louder but he doesn’t seem to mind that for some reason
My guess is that guitarist is using bedroom tones with the band and his bass knob is turned way up, interfering in your frequency range.
And my Fender ACB50 sounds Fine in my opinion. It’s a new amp, so I know it will be a while before I see a bunch of reviews on it
Your confused?
I'm confused!
Rehearsing without microphone?
Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Get a decent rehearsal room with a good PA and microphones, turn your full bass rig up and see if it still sounds muddy... Bet it changes everything.
Rehearsing under conditions you mention, is a large part of the problem.
I'm confused!
Rehearsing without microphone?
Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Get a decent rehearsal room with a good PA and microphones, turn your full bass rig up and see if it still sounds muddy... Bet it changes everything.
Rehearsing under conditions you mention, is a large part of the problem.
Tell him he sounds like a beehive in a trash can being kicked down a flight of stairs and that his solos are sloppy. Then refuse to define what sloppy is.
Funny how bassists never tell guitar players what is wrong with their sound.
You have excellent gear. Any one of those rigs should sound great, adjusted properly. There's other issues at play here, obviously. Sounds like you all need more time/experience learning what makes a good mix in a given setting.
The guitar player has the PA and microphones. He just doesn’t want to drag that stuff out for practice.
This guitar player is all about himself. I'm afraid he wouldn't last long with me. Did I read this right that rehearsal is without microphones / PA? How is anything vocally worked out? I guess I missed something? If your guitar player is BL he reassured me he has a rectal cranial inversion going on.
Granted, you CAN sit around with amps and electric instruments and run through songs with vocals with no mics/PA. But you have to be turned down so quiet that it negates worrying at all about the actual quality of the sound. You just wanna be able to hear the singing. You could have your bass plugged into your TV for all it matters. If you're rehearsing to play regular amplified gigs but only this way, you're in for an uphill battle (more like uphill train wreck) when you get to the show.
1) Nobody should be thinking about tone in a rehearsal so quiet that the vocalists are not amplified.
2) "Muddy" is one of those words that people use when they don't really know what they want. Usually what they mean is bottom-heavy and undefined, and the quote from Pilgrim addresses this. But if your guy is critiquing tone in a quiet rehearsal, he needs to just stop because none of what you're doing at that volume applies to stage volume.
Guitar player sounds like a right pillock.
Guitarists have been the bane of my musical existence. Sounds to me like your experiencing the same misfortune.
Muddy isn't always used by people "who don't know what they want". It's very easy really, the guy wants more clarity and definition.... that's going to be difficult with sound levels that low, where amps cabs and pickups are barely excited electronically.
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The definition of a bass is found in the mids. So many people and amps as well have the mids scooped to sound more 'bassy' but since I got a bass with defined mids as its natural sound my eyes were opened. Sometimes I add a little bass to give it more body but its the mids that cut through. Treble just enhances fretnoise, so I turn that down usually and turn the high mids up instead.
I ask drums, guitar's and singers to start first song rehearsal/Gig then stand in middle a bring my Bass in to blend and get others approval;[takes 15sec to 1 minute to blend in and make adjustments if needed] also I go out into audience.
Early on in my Bass Playing Day's [70's] was tired of at rehearsal/Gig always seeing finger pointing either for turn up or down. many times when onstage was accused of muddy sound or feedback and 100% of the time I was not culprit usually Acoustic Guitar not turned off sitting in stand or Keyboard player using their UN-NEEDED pedals[Major pet peeve for me]
Point; get approval of BL before rehearsal even if it means adjusting tone to his liking or find another Band
PS; Try starting off with no EQ added or frowny face type EQ
Early on in my Bass Playing Day's [70's] was tired of at rehearsal/Gig always seeing finger pointing either for turn up or down. many times when onstage was accused of muddy sound or feedback and 100% of the time I was not culprit usually Acoustic Guitar not turned off sitting in stand or Keyboard player using their UN-NEEDED pedals[Major pet peeve for me]
Point; get approval of BL before rehearsal even if it means adjusting tone to his liking or find another Band
PS; Try starting off with no EQ added or frowny face type EQ
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So I plugged in my stingray in channel 2 of the Adam Clayton amp. I turned up the bass and turned down the treble. On my stingray I did the same thing. It gave us the deep low sound he wanted and the guitar player was happy. I could still use channel one but with a different band. The midrange apparently isn’t our sound but I’m agreeing with those of you that said we were in each other’s territory. He was also happy with the ampeg and bongo combination last week. Right now I plan on using certain basses with certain amps. He said he hates peavey but I still think with an active stingray the peavey could have worked. I’m still thinking my 5 string basses can work with the ACB50 now that I know how to get that low bassy sound the guitar player wants.
