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Upgrade my rig

H Nighttrain

H Nighttrain

Feb 12, 2018
548
1,424
San Pedro
#1
I went thru a bunch of amps and cabs until about 15 years ago when I cured my gas with an Eden WT330 and an Eden D210MBX that I wired to 2 ohms to draw more power from the head, about 400W. Great rig for my "mainly weekend bar band classic rock and blues fingerstyle no PA support jazz clone" gigs.

(When more is required I've also got a WT550, D212XLT, and a Berg 610 - not looking to up-size.)

I love the tone from the rig, the fact that I almost always just leave the knobs at 12 o'clock unless it's a goofy room, and that it's response is very even up and down the neck. I've used a lot of rigs where I'm fighting booming or disappearing notes, no such issues here. It's got enough oomph for just about any gig I do.

I've checked out some class D amps, but never felt they had the same feel as the Eden (whomp, whatever), that was generally some time ago and going by this forum that's either still the case or not the case with that class of amp, appears to be very subjective. I'd be great to have a lighter weight/smaller head, but the Eden is only 13 lbs as it is. And it seems that very few will handle a 2 ohm load.

My main goal is a lighter cab, my 210 is around 50 lbs and I'd figured that by now the neo cabs would be feather light and move plenty of air - but I haven't seen one. I was impressed by the weight (just under 40 lbs) and sound volume from a Rumble 500 combo but underwhelmed by the tone (lack of articulation/definition - not bad but not like the Eden). The cab by itself is $200 less but weighs the same as the combo and is only avail 8 ohms - it's prob able to be rewired to 2 ohms but I'd hafta order one to check one out and I'm thinking I'd not be impressed, even with the Eden head.

The other things I'm curious about are 2x8 cabs like the Trace Elliott and the TC Elec (others?) - two of those are about 25% more cone area than a 2x10, and at about 25 lbs each they'd weigh the same as my single cab but be a lot easier to carry. But I've never seen one, stores these days have so few items to check out.

So... for anybody still reading... am I missing something? Any/all amp or cab suggestions greatly appreciated, or just tell me to shut up and keep enjoying my setup.
 
#2
I just bought a WT400+, & am picking up a pre-Fender SWR Goliath II in a few days...man, I'm no help at all :D But, NAD & NCD!!!

Personally, I like the older stuff. The weight isn't a big deal because I use a folding dolly. The tone is incomparable to my ears. I also run a full Ashdown rig, & my main squeeze for years was a Mesa Venture (2x12). So...uh...shut up & enjoy...I guess?? :D:D

I don't have much to offer as far as cabinets go, but I have had one eyebrow raised by the Quilter Bass Block, & both eyebrows raised by Mesa's Subway gear, including the cabs.
 
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#4
Check out Audiokinesis, Barefaced and Greenboy (fEARless & fEARful) cabs.
I am a happy user of the barefaced 112 models (I own a Super Compact and a Super Midget). Each of these is below 20lbs and eats any conventional 210 cab for breakfast. Both stacked with a head that's capable of 500+ Watts will dish out enough volume for lasting hearing damage with ease.
 
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#6
H Nighttrain said:
I went thru a bunch of amps and cabs until about 15 years ago when I cured my gas with an Eden WT330 and an Eden D210MBX that I wired to 2 ohms to draw more power from the head, about 400W. Great rig for my "mainly weekend bar band classic rock and blues fingerstyle no PA support jazz clone" gigs.

(When more is required I've also got a WT550, D212XLT, and a Berg 610 - not looking to up-size.)

I love the tone from the rig, the fact that I almost always just leave the knobs at 12 o'clock unless it's a goofy room, and that it's response is very even up and down the neck. I've used a lot of rigs where I'm fighting booming or disappearing notes, no such issues here. It's got enough oomph for just about any gig I do.

I've checked out some class D amps, but never felt they had the same feel as the Eden (whomp, whatever), that was generally some time ago and going by this forum that's either still the case or not the case with that class of amp, appears to be very subjective. I'd be great to have a lighter weight/smaller head, but the Eden is only 13 lbs as it is. And it seems that very few will handle a 2 ohm load.

My main goal is a lighter cab, my 210 is around 50 lbs and I'd figured that by now the neo cabs would be feather light and move plenty of air - but I haven't seen one. I was impressed by the weight (just under 40 lbs) and sound volume from a Rumble 500 combo but underwhelmed by the tone (lack of articulation/definition - not bad but not like the Eden). The cab by itself is $200 less but weighs the same as the combo and is only avail 8 ohms - it's prob able to be rewired to 2 ohms but I'd hafta order one to check one out and I'm thinking I'd not be impressed, even with the Eden head.

The other things I'm curious about are 2x8 cabs like the Trace Elliott and the TC Elec (others?) - two of those are about 25% more cone area than a 2x10, and at about 25 lbs each they'd weigh the same as my single cab but be a lot easier to carry. But I've never seen one, stores these days have so few items to check out.

So... for anybody still reading... am I missing something? Any/all amp or cab suggestions greatly appreciated, or just tell me to shut up and keep enjoying my setup.
Click to expand...
IMHO, comparing your cabs to the Rumble series is a bit apples to oranges. Rumble is pretty much Fenders value line. Your Eden cabs were pretty close to high end at one time, the Berg 610 still is.


IMHO, if you're interested in Fender, look at the Bassman Neo line if you want something more comparable to what you already have.

Here's a thread you might like
Bassman 410Neo vs Rumble 410
 
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#8
You need more speakers IMHO. A 210 only can go so far. I ran an Eden WT300 through my 4ohm Epifani UL410. It made that head sound like a whole lot more. Great cab with massive low end, 56 pounds and handles 1000 watts. I know you were looking for a bit lighter cab, but more speakers equals more volume. It would sound great with the WT330, but with your WT550, it would kick some butt.
 
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#9
Thumpin6string said:
You need more speakers IMHO. A 210 only can go so far. I ran an Eden WT300 through my 4ohm Epifani UL410. It made that head sound like a whole lot more. Great cab with massive low end, 56 pounds and handles 1000 watts. I know you were looking for a bit lighter cab, but more speakers equals more volume. It would sound great with the WT330, but with your WT550, it would kick some butt.
Click to expand...

Yup, rewire that cab to the original impedance (don't worry about how much power you draw, the speakers only get as loud as they get) and add a second of the same cabinet.
 
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#10
Thump - agree, 100%, if I need more for a gig I've got the 550, the 212, the 610, also an old Fender BXR400, and a Carvin 410. But for the vaaaast (like, all but 4-5 gigs in the past, like, 7-8 years) majority of my gigs the 330/210 is my rig and it's handled everything beautifully for the last 16 years. It's been and continues to be phenomenal.

And to Ward - oh yeah! I like my 330 so much I bought a second one as soon as I heard they'd stop making them in the US!

(Appologies if this sounds like humble brag, there's clearly a whole mess of y'all who just WISH you could find a gas cure as well as mine has kept me in check for years - but gas is a tough monkey, and after beefing up my 'lil PA I still have some tax refund left - don't tell the wife...)

So, what I'm looking for is gear that will still make me nearly, as much as, or (hopefully!) more happy than my 330/210 rig AND be lighter weight. It's doubtful I'll think an 'as good or better and lighter' amp will be worth it to me, so I'm basically focussing on cabs.
 
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#11
Inhuman, thanks for your reply as well, I agree 100%...

And for whoever might care... the WT330 seems to me to 'feel' best when driving 4 ohm loads - 8 ohm loads feel somehow less, I dunno, "in charge" (even with an 8-ohm Carvin or GK410), and at 2 ohms I feel it's good-sounding volume range is a bit more limited. But it doubles the output power and I got my 210 used... so between 8 or 2 ohms the rig performs better at 400W (I'd probably be just as happy if the cab was 4 ohm). I loose the option to add a cab at 2 ohm, so for the (rare for me) bigger gigs I have to use the heavier gear.

But I think it's best at 4 ohms, so that's what I'm looking for in a cab or cabs, and I'm not afraid of going down to 2.67 or 2 ohms, but not an 8 ohm config.
 
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#12
H Nighttrain said:
Thump - agree, 100%, if I need more for a gig I've got the 550, the 212, the 610, also an old Fender BXR400, and a Carvin 410. But for the vaaaast (like, all but 4-5 gigs in the past, like, 7-8 years) majority of my gigs the 330/210 is my rig and it's handled everything beautifully for the last 16 years. It's been and continues to be phenomenal.

And to Ward - oh yeah! I like my 330 so much I bought a second one as soon as I heard they'd stop making them in the US!

(Appologies if this sounds like humble brag, there's clearly a whole mess of y'all who just WISH you could find a gas cure as well as mine has kept me in check for years - but gas is a tough monkey, and after beefing up my 'lil PA I still have some tax refund left - don't tell the wife...)

So, what I'm looking for is gear that will still make me nearly, as much as, or (hopefully!) more happy than my 330/210 rig AND be lighter weight. It's doubtful I'll think an 'as good or better and lighter' amp will be worth it to me, so I'm basically focussing on cabs.
Click to expand...

I gigged for several years with an Eden D210XLT. So I totally understand that you don't necessarily need another speaker. I think what your looking for is the keep your performance but loose the weight of your old school cabs, but do it on the cheap. The cheap part is the challenge. Good, cheap, and light weight don't typically go together.
 
#13
Thought about a pair of lightweight 112 cabinets ? That would be easier to carry than your 210 . Sounds like you want something that sounds as good as the Eden but lighter . I've heard very good things about Revsound making some great sounding lightweight cabinets . If I didn't build my own that's where I'd look .
 
#14
My personal experience with the Rumble cabs: like you, I thought the 500 combo lacked definition, so I moved on. Years later I compared it to a Rumble 200 cab (1x15 vs the 500's 2x10) and much preferred it. Picked up a pair of Rumble 15" cabs and am totally happy with the clarity. I can't explain why, but I think for some reason the 15s have a much clearer tone than the 10s.
 
#15
Thanks again to everyone.

As far as cost goes, and how much I'm willing to spend... well, cost is always a factor (right!) but only one. I'm also considering:

- Size: small enough to fit the backseat of my 'lil car, big enough so my WT330 will sit nicely on top w/o hanging over
- Impedance: looking for 2-4 ohm solution
- Config: this gives me a feel for the, uh, 'bigness' I'll get. So I've been looking at mostly 2x110, 210, 112, 2x112, 212, and 115 options, but also 28, 2x28, 48, and some odder cominations (e.g. PJB 5 inch drivers, Dr Bass 12+6.5, LDS stuff, ...) - I find that the greater the speaker area, the better - well kinda... ah, y'all know what I mean...
- Power handling: not a big factor or discriminator, most seem fine with what the WT330 puts out; but when I see a cab rated at like 800W to 1000W I'm thinking my lil Eden might not match as well as a more powerful amp
- Sensitivity: very important to me - my Eden Wedge is 103dB, I favor high efficiency cabs, esp with my WT330 (better/more demanding players might sacrifice a little efficiency for a flatter, very clean response, and can drive it with more power)
- Freq resp: also a "feel" factor - my wedge claims 62 Hz - 14.5 kHz, it's the wedge version of the 210XLT that iirc went lower, but I actually prefer the low end from the wedge - I'm exclusively 4-string, prefer more low mid than deep fundamental - and I turn the tweeter attenuator way down... so this is not a big discriminator for me
- Weight: well, that's the reason I'm looking... for it to be worth my while the solution will have to be <40 lbs for a single cab, <25 lbs each for a two-cab solution

There's other things that may seem less important but have to be considered - covering, handles, corners, connectors, xover in mixed cabs, ...

Anyway, I hope that list might be helpful to folks in a similar situation. So many choices, so few available to try in person, so I have to go by what looks good 'on paper' and then look over subjective online reviews.

I've got several pages of tables now from I think close to two dozen companies... have a preliminary winner in mind but haven't pulled the trigger just yet...
 
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#16
Oh yeah, that last message was supposed to be about cost....

I didn't list a range originally, I needed to find out what it would take to meet my needs. I figured I could find something new in the $600-900 range. All the research I've done is yielding results from like $500-1600, there's a ton of stuff out there!

And if I can find something used that fits the bill, all the better. I haven't. And if I see something just a little less than my specs but too cheap to pass up I might take it just because, but that's a longshot.
 

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