Upgrading Kustom DE610?

[Rambazamba]

So I have this Kustom DE610. It's a 6x10" cab and has some clever fearures for transport, a nice size and look and it has about zero resale value.

Yesterday I hooked up my other cab on my bass amp. It's a FMC 2x15"+2x8" which I use for my synths at the moment. FMC is a custom builder here in Germany and his cabs are absolutely stellar. So I knew it would sound significantly better but I didn't expect the difference to be so incredibly huge.

In the past I often thought about modding the Kustom or replacing the speakers but since it's a 6x10" the impedance of the drivers has to be pretty odd to get it to 4 ohms all together. So when I heard how bad the Kustom actually sounds and thought again about how to mod it I had an idea.

So, how about I only replace 4 of the speakers and leave 2 of the old ones inside to seal the cab, but not connected? This way I had a wide range of possible speakers to choose from and had essentially an oversized 4x10" cab which doesn't appear to be a bad idea.

Tl;dr: I want to make a cheap 6x10" an oversized 4x10" with better speakers.

So: What do you all think about it?

What speakers would you recommend? I want them to be very efficient (=loud!), punchy and clear, suitable for overdriven rock bass. Tight bass, rounded top end. The cab should have 4 ohms in the end and handle 400 watts. It doesn't have to be super budget friendly but can't be very expensive either.

I had a good experience with Eminence speakers when I put Swamp Thangs in my guitar cab but other than that, I have little knowledge.

Thank you!

 

[paskisti]

So I have this Kustom DE610. It's a 6x10" cab and has some clever fearures for transport, a nice size and look and it has about zero resale value.

Yesterday I hooked up my other cab on my bass amp. It's a FMC 2x15"+2x8" which I use for my synths at the moment. FMC is a custom builder here in Germany and his cabs are absolutely stellar. So I knew it would sound significantly better but I didn't expect the difference to be so incredibly huge.

In the past I often thought about modding the Kustom or replacing the speakers but since it's a 6x10" the impedance of the drivers has to be pretty odd to get it to 4 ohms all together. So when I heard how bad the Kustom actually sounds and thought again about how to mod it I had an idea.

So, how about I only replace 4 of the speakers and leave 2 of the old ones inside to seal the cab, but not connected? This way I had a wide range of possible speakers to choose from and had essentially an oversized 4x10" cab which doesn't appear to be a bad idea.

Tl;dr: I want to make a cheap 6x10" an oversized 4x10" with better speakers.

So: What do you all think about it?

What speakers would you recommend? I want them to be very efficient (=loud!), punchy and clear, suitable for overdriven rock bass. Tight bass, rounded top end. The cab should have 4 ohms in the end and handle 400 watts. It doesn't have to be super budget friendly but can't be very expensive either.

I had a good experience with Eminence speakers when I put Swamp Thangs in my guitar cab but other than that, I have little knowledge.

Thank you!

Why it must be total 4 ohms? Putting 6 8ohm speakers you can get 5,3 ohm total that is close enough having good power out of solid state amp. Difference between output power at 5,3 and 4 ohm are meaningless and you won't even notice the difference if sensitive remains the same. If you have tube amp I think 4 ohm output is good one to use.

 

[Rambazamba]

Yes, you're probably right. I have an old Peavey Musician 400 and these deliver full power at 2 ohms. Since I want to be able to share cabs in a live situation and most bassamps require a minimum load of 4 ohms, I thought I shouldn't wire the cab below 4ohms, but as low as possible to wrench the most power out of the relatively weak old Peavey.
But efficiently more speakers will make more of a bigger sound than a few more watts, right?

 

[Redbrangus]

If you want to convert it to a 410, you would need to take the unused speakers out and block up the openings with plywood or something else that's rigid. Otherwise, the old speakers will respond to the pressure changes inside the cab and contribute deleterious effects to the overall sound. Essentially, they would be serving as passive radiators, but in an uncontrolled way that is not coherent with the bass reflex 'design' of the cab.

And as mentioned, you could use six 8-ohm drivers in a series/parallel combination, but that's a lot of drivers to have to pay for.

 

[abarson]

In almost all cases of this sort, your money is better spent on a new cabinet than trying to make the 610 something it isn't.

 

[Frank77]

If it were my money and time, I'd simply sell the Kustom cab and buy something else that meets my tonal goals. There's little chance the Kustom will sound that much better after modding it, IMHO.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

So I have this Kustom DE610. It's a 6x10" cab and has some clever fearures for transport, a nice size and look and it has about zero resale value.

Yesterday I hooked up my other cab on my bass amp. It's a FMC 2x15"+2x8" which I use for my synths at the moment. FMC is a custom builder here in Germany and his cabs are absolutely stellar. So I knew it would sound significantly better but I didn't expect the difference to be so incredibly huge.

In the past I often thought about modding the Kustom or replacing the speakers but since it's a 6x10" the impedance of the drivers has to be pretty odd to get it to 4 ohms all together. So when I heard how bad the Kustom actually sounds and thought again about how to mod it I had an idea.

So, how about I only replace 4 of the speakers and leave 2 of the old ones inside to seal the cab, but not connected? This way I had a wide range of possible speakers to choose from and had essentially an oversized 4x10" cab which doesn't appear to be a bad idea.

Tl;dr: I want to make a cheap 6x10" an oversized 4x10" with better speakers.

So: What do you all think about it?

What speakers would you recommend? I want them to be very efficient (=loud!), punchy and clear, suitable for overdriven rock bass. Tight bass, rounded top end. The cab should have 4 ohms in the end and handle 400 watts. It doesn't have to be super budget friendly but can't be very expensive either.

I had a good experience with Eminence speakers when I put Swamp Thangs in my guitar cab but other than that, I have little knowledge.

Thank you!

You would certainly be better off buying a new cab that does what you want, but if you can come up with six 4-ohm speakers that suit your cabs internal volume and its porting, you can wire each pair of 4Ω speakers in parallel so they have a 2Ω total and then wire those three pairs together in series, which will give you a 6Ω load. If I recall correctly that is what Eden did with their D610XL and XST cabs. That assures each speaker gets the same amount of power and is equally stressed. Plus, there's not a lot of difference in the power and volume level between 4Ω and 6Ω. Yes there is a difference but the durability of the cabinet's speakers is much better off with each pair of speakers getting the same load.

I see that Mesa Powerhouse 610 is a 4Ω cab. Perhaps @agedhorse will pop in and offer you some suggestions.

 

[arbiterusa]

Modding cabs doesn't work. Sell it.

ETA: I learned this the hard way because most everyone learns it the hard way; you can mod a bass, you can mod a tube amp, why can't you mod a cab?

You can't mod a cab because they're designed around one and only one kind of speaker and putting a different speaker in one will always - and I mean always - work worse.

 

[AlexanderB]

Modding cabs doesn't work. Sell it.

ETA: I learned this the hard way because most everyone learns it the hard way; you can mod a bass, you can mod a tube amp, why can't you mod a cab?

You can't mod a cab because they're designed around one and only one kind of speaker and putting a different speaker in one will always - and I mean always - work worse.

Naah... That is not really true at all.
When designing cabs, manufacturers consider sheet material optimisation, machine utilisation, how much tolex or felt is needed, stacking options with other cabs in their portfolio, shipping etc.
It is very common that the 410, 212 and 115 happen to have the same exterior dimensions, which tends to put the 410 a bit small, and 115 too big, if the drivers are from the same "family" as the 212.
Another proof is that the 210 cabs are very often quite a bit larger than "half a 410".
So no, many commercial cabs are NOT very technically optimized at all. A different driver might perform a lot better.

Secondly, swapping in another (more modern) variant of transducer might also allow you to better use modern, high power amps. The enclosure requirements are not wildly different between ie Eminence Kappa 10 and DeltaLite II 2510. I checked the data, ran calculations and swapped the drivers. The DeltaLites can take much more power, go deeper and louder. They have a high mid spike, easily tamed by a coil in series. And they are lighter too. All upgrade, no downside. Upgraded cab sounds very similar to Gammas, but more.

 

[abarson]

Naah... That is not really true at all.
When designing cabs, manufacturers consider sheet material optimisation, machine utilisation, how much tolex or felt is needed, stacking options with other cabs in their portfolio, shipping etc.
It is very common that the 410, 212 and 115 happen to have the same exterior dimensions, which tends to put the 410 a bit small, and 115 too big, if the drivers are from the same "family" as the 212.
Another proof is that the 210 cabs are very often quite a bit larger than "half a 410".
So no, many commercial cabs are NOT very technically optimized at all. A different driver might perform a lot better.

Secondly, swapping in another (more modern) variant of transducer might also allow you to better use modern, high power amps. The enclosure requirements are not wildly different between ie Eminence Kappa 10 and DeltaLite II 2510. I checked the data, ran calculations and swapped the drivers. The DeltaLites can take much more power, go deeper and louder. They have a high mid spike, easily tamed by a coil in series. And they are lighter too. All upgrade, no downside. Upgraded cab sounds very similar to Gammas, but more.

The companies that care about how good their product sounds do indeed engineer with specific speakers in mind, with general size goals in mind.
The companies that only care about profit use the method you describe.

 

[Rambazamba]

I'm very sure they just put the cheapest speakers in there they could find and definitely did not construct the cab around them.

Is anyone familiar with the Celestion Pulse10? Reviews on sweetwater and thomann are very good and price seems alright.

 

[agedhorse]

In almost all cases of this sort, your money is better spent on a new cabinet than trying to make the 610 something it isn't.

If it were my money and time, I'd simply sell the Kustom cab and buy something else that meets my tonal goals. There's little chance the Kustom will sound that much better after modding it, IMHO.

in general I agree. Since there will be almost no resale with or without new drivers, imo that's a lot of money to spend without much certainty of a significant improvement.

IMO, the money would be better spent on a new or used speaker system that meets the needs of the OP, AND can be test played to confirm that it meets the needs.

You would certainly be better off buying a new cab that does what you want, but if you can come up with six 4-ohm speakers that suit your cabs internal volume and its porting, you can wire each pair of 4Ω speakers in parallel so they have a 2Ω total and then wire those three pairs together in series, which will give you a 6Ω load. If I recall correctly that is what Eden did with their D610XL and XST cabs. That assures each speaker gets the same amount of power and is equally stressed. Plus, there's not a lot of difference in the power and volume level between 4Ω and 6Ω. Yes there is a difference but the durability of the cabinet's speakers is much better off with each pair of speakers getting the same load.

I see that Mesa Powerhouse 610 is a 4Ω cab. Perhaps @agedhorse will pop in and offer you some suggestions.

Often, a speaker system with an impedance of 5.3 ohms will be included as a 4 ohm nominal impedance.

Modding cabs doesn't work. Sell it.

ETA: I learned this the hard way because most everyone learns it the hard way; you can mod a bass, you can mod a tube amp, why can't you mod a cab?

You can't mod a cab because they're designed around one and only one kind of speaker and putting a different speaker in one will always - and I mean always - work worse.

Without a fair amount of work, your experience is common. It can be done, but in this (and many) case the end result is probably not worth the cost.

 

[Rambazamba]

Okay, thank you. I will look for a better 6x10" and maybe just give the Kustom away.

What about the Ashdown 610CL and ABM 610? Should I look out for one of those?