I have a student (cheap) upright bass that i bought to learn with. Unfortunately, I will be using it in a live setting for a record release show. Problem is, I used it in rehearsal and had an issue with feedback which forced me to keep the volume low. I have a Fishman bp100 and in rehearsal I played through a stack in a very small room. However for the gig I plan on using a Fender Bassman 20 on a large stage. Are there any precautionary measures I should take to ensure that there is no issues with feedback?
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Double Bass Upright Amplification Question...
- Thread starter bassman1983
- Start date
Yes! Loose the fishman and get a Gage Realist pickup. Underwoods sound better than the fishmans as well. That would be a great start for feedback and getting low end out of the bass. Also make sure that you're not standing directly in front of the amp when you're playing... Good luck!
Thanks a lot!
I just bought the Fishman though. In testing it at home I found it to sounded really good. Also forgot to mention that at first I had my bass going through a compressor which is when most of the feedback was occurring. After unplugging and going straight to the amp i was able to turn up more with less feedback... How is the realist different and is it easy to install?
I just bought the Fishman though. In testing it at home I found it to sounded really good. Also forgot to mention that at first I had my bass going through a compressor which is when most of the feedback was occurring. After unplugging and going straight to the amp i was able to turn up more with less feedback... How is the realist different and is it easy to install?
The BP100 sucks. The Full Circle is way better, and so are the Underwood, Gage, and B-Band pickups.
The Fishman has been around forever, I've had one for over twenty years. It is more finicky than most newer pickups but can work just fine if you use it effectively. I use mine with an EQ /DI box, with great results. You may want to go straight to the board from there, that is often a good solution. As for amps, smaller is better, then either run a line out to the board or mic the amp.
I use a fishman BP-100 through a fishman Pro-EQ platinum bass preamp. I've never had any problems with it. I've played through PA's, my amp head (ampeg svt-4) and a fishman loudbox mini.
I know it's not the best pick up, but it certainly isn't terrible.
I would try using a preamp to help deal with your feedback.
I know it's not the best pick up, but it certainly isn't terrible.
I would try using a preamp to help deal with your feedback.
I too have a cheap crappy upright w/the BP-100, so I have two strikes against me right off the bat. To get around the feedback I crazy glued the contacts about 1/2 inch back from the strings (between E-A and the D-G) on the underside of the bridge, used foam to hold the cable in place through one of the holes in the bridge and plug into a Baggs ParaEQ. From there I can go direct to the PA as well as feed a old Fender Showman head into a 15. Very warm and forgiving set up w/a lot of flexibility to find and drop out the offending feedback frequencies thanks to the preamp. And I'm careful to keep the amp behind the bass. The ultimate solution would be to get a nicer bass and try one of the recommended pick ups listed by the previous posters, the Realist is a fav.
I have a Realist installed on my cheap plywood bass and it is prone to feedback and boomy, dark, tone. The point where the pick-up attaches to the wire to the plug is also weak and I'm now getting a lot of noise so I'm looking for a new pick-up. YMMV.
thanks to everyone for the wealth of information! I'm gonna give the fishman pro preamp a shot and hope it all goes well. thanks again lowendas!
the Realist is the sonic opposite of the bright Fishman, it is very dark. It is placed under the E bridge foot. It actually might sound good in combo with the fishman if you want to open that can of worms.
I have only used the BP-100, have it on 2 basses and have been gigging with them for over 12 years. When mounted the way they tell you, it is absolutely the worst DB pickup in the world (aside from the Shadow), especially without using the Platinum Pro preamp.
1. Stack the piezo elements on top of each other shiny side to shiny side.
2. Get one of those felt pads with the sticky back for the bottom of chair legs. (supermarkets, drugstores and hardware stores have em. They are the same diameter as the BP-100 elements and are sold in quantities for only 3 or 4 bucks).
3. Stick the felt pad in the bridge wing sticky side down (E side). You may have to compress it a bit with pliers to fit.
4. Slide in the elements on the bare felt side against the top of the bridge wing. (should be tight but not too tight).
5. ???
6. Profit.
I'll try to post pictures of my setup using this pickup and my jack solution (I HATE using the jack clamped to the strings; horrible idea IMHO). I should probably be using something else but I'm kinda "dyed in the wool" about the BP-100. I've also invested too much time getting it to work but now you can benefit from my struggles and experimentation.
PS: My feedback problems didn't stop until I started mounting it this way and using the Platinum Pro (before I had one element in each wing which was miles ahead of the typical mounting but sounded a bit anemic; the above method will give you LOADS of gain and BOTTOM so turn the input of your preamp all the way down). The above method should make the pickup useable.
1. Stack the piezo elements on top of each other shiny side to shiny side.
2. Get one of those felt pads with the sticky back for the bottom of chair legs. (supermarkets, drugstores and hardware stores have em. They are the same diameter as the BP-100 elements and are sold in quantities for only 3 or 4 bucks).
3. Stick the felt pad in the bridge wing sticky side down (E side). You may have to compress it a bit with pliers to fit.
4. Slide in the elements on the bare felt side against the top of the bridge wing. (should be tight but not too tight).
5. ???
6. Profit.
I'll try to post pictures of my setup using this pickup and my jack solution (I HATE using the jack clamped to the strings; horrible idea IMHO). I should probably be using something else but I'm kinda "dyed in the wool" about the BP-100. I've also invested too much time getting it to work but now you can benefit from my struggles and experimentation.
PS: My feedback problems didn't stop until I started mounting it this way and using the Platinum Pro (before I had one element in each wing which was miles ahead of the typical mounting but sounded a bit anemic; the above method will give you LOADS of gain and BOTTOM so turn the input of your preamp all the way down). The above method should make the pickup useable.
I haven't used one of these fishman for years. I knew it sounded better when hot glued on instead of the mutes...I mean clips that came with it, but never got around to it. When I did use the pickup, I had it clipped to the opposite side of the bridge, the tailpiece side. Sounded better and fixed some difference in volume between the two elements. Not sure why but it did.
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
Personally, I've never heard a Fishman pickup that I could stand the sound of...but that's me 
Almost anything would be better...the platpro preamp will most likely help out some...amplifying upright bass is a moving target...every room brings a new challenge, esp if you play loud! If you try an Underwood, only clip one side in and leave the other one dangling, or better yet, clip it off! The phase problems stack up quick if you use both elements...I clipped one side and made a backup pickup out of the other...Bass max is a decent pickup...Barbera's are amazing...there's a new boutique guy who makes a really nice pickup called a TM (or "TacoMan")...the REALIST gets a lot of love...I'm not a huge fan, personally.
GOOD LUCK!
Almost anything would be better...the platpro preamp will most likely help out some...amplifying upright bass is a moving target...every room brings a new challenge, esp if you play loud! If you try an Underwood, only clip one side in and leave the other one dangling, or better yet, clip it off! The phase problems stack up quick if you use both elements...I clipped one side and made a backup pickup out of the other...Bass max is a decent pickup...Barbera's are amazing...there's a new boutique guy who makes a really nice pickup called a TM (or "TacoMan")...the REALIST gets a lot of love...I'm not a huge fan, personally.GOOD LUCK!
Forgive me if it was here already and I missed it, but in my opinion no thread on feedback is complete without a link to this post by Uncle Toad that applies no matter what pickup you're using...
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f4/stopping-feedback-loud-settings-413725/#post5450657
The HPF-Pre, tailpiece/afterlength damping when needed and getting the amp up off the floor have made a big difference for me.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f4/stopping-feedback-loud-settings-413725/#post5450657
The HPF-Pre, tailpiece/afterlength damping when needed and getting the amp up off the floor have made a big difference for me.
Old School I know, but its worked for me for nigh on 20 yrs and this is what was availableto the average picker back then.
Experiment with the placement of the transducers. On my old Kay they stayed cliped to the treble side f hole. On this bass they sound best superglued here.
Would I buy a diff pickup nowadays? Yes, prb a Full Circle or something from K&K. But the BP100 can work fine if your careful and experiment.
Get the plat pro, or even better, the Baggs PADI if you can afford it.
Experiment with the placement of the transducers. On my old Kay they stayed cliped to the treble side f hole. On this bass they sound best superglued here.
Would I buy a diff pickup nowadays? Yes, prb a Full Circle or something from K&K. But the BP100 can work fine if your careful and experiment.
Get the plat pro, or even better, the Baggs PADI if you can afford it.
Attachments
I used the BP100 for more than 10 years with GK MB150 combo, it worked very well. If you have the right strings and amp you can get good sound with it. Now I use Full Circle, but few month ago, my bass was at the luthier to repair, I played few gigs with a crappy bass what the luthier give me until my bass ready. I put my old BP100 to it, and it worked well, not sucks.
Here's a video:
Here's a video:
Like a bunch of folks out here, I've used the BP100 for over 10 years. That's on my big carved 7/8 used mainly for jazz. Quieter settings but some where I've had enough volume to get feedback. This is with the Fishman preamp. I've also recently started using a K&K pickup/preamp on my Englehardt Swingmaster for arguably really loud settings. Also gives me feedback at times. I've tried things raging from eq knob twiddling to taping the F holes with varied success. Some of these ideas came from other TB threads over the years.
IMHO, I get feedback from either set depending more on how the stage is set up. Invariably having my amp too directly and too close behind the bass, location and angle if my monitor, whether I'm in front of the mains or not, and even where other instruments are located. Heck - I've have my bass resonate fundamentals along with a guitarists' tuning based on whether sound is striking the back of my bass right.
If I'm playing with any amount of volume, I make sure that I'm a) well behind the mains, b) well in front of and at an angle away from my amp and c) keep my monitor at an angle (I.e. Pointed at the side of my bass rather that straight on at the table).
Just two cents based on my own experiences trying to sort this out. BTW - I now rarely get feedback and when I do a couple of minor physical changes makes the difference.
Also, no comment on the actual tone of the BP100. That's more elusive than sorting out feedback ;-)
IMHO, I get feedback from either set depending more on how the stage is set up. Invariably having my amp too directly and too close behind the bass, location and angle if my monitor, whether I'm in front of the mains or not, and even where other instruments are located. Heck - I've have my bass resonate fundamentals along with a guitarists' tuning based on whether sound is striking the back of my bass right.
If I'm playing with any amount of volume, I make sure that I'm a) well behind the mains, b) well in front of and at an angle away from my amp and c) keep my monitor at an angle (I.e. Pointed at the side of my bass rather that straight on at the table).
Just two cents based on my own experiences trying to sort this out. BTW - I now rarely get feedback and when I do a couple of minor physical changes makes the difference.
Also, no comment on the actual tone of the BP100. That's more elusive than sorting out feedback ;-)
I have seen a couple of very fine players use the BP-100 with great results. Viktor Krauss uses one with Lyle Lovett and due to the pickups midrange characteristics, it cuts through the mix beautifully. So in that particular situation the BP-100 is the right tool for the job. They do sound much better with the Fishman Pre Amp. If you look at the pickup survey that Chris
did you can see that a handful of players do actually still use the pickup. So it works on some bases quite well.
Ric
Ric
This is THE key statement. I've had 9 basses. The BP-100 worked great with 3 of them and not at all on the other 6. On the ones it worked on, it was better than the Realist, Schertler (both Dyn and Stat-B), Underwood, Planet Wing or SoundClip. On the basses, it didn't work on, it was horrible. There wasn't any middle ground and nothing I could do to get a good sound out of it (although, I may give Rebop's setup a go if I ever get another bass). When I say horrible, I mean fingernails-on-a-blackboard bad. No bottom end and a screechy mid-range even with a pre-amp.
It is still my pickup of choice on my main bass (a 1928 Juzek with gut strings). It is fat and warm sounding. In fact, on this bass, the Realist and the SoundClip don't work very well on it. They're kind of anemic sounding with an unpleasant bottom end. The BP-100 is a bit more direct sounding but has way more bottom end and sounds dramatically more acoustic. I tame most of the direct sound by using an AI down-firing speaker.
It's been my experience that there isn't any one "good" pickup. You just have to try stuff until you find what works on that bass. Whenever I get a new bass, I go to the drawer and try everything. Eventually, I find the right combination of strings, amp, speaker and pickup that make the bass sound it's best. The point, though, is that combination is different for every bass even ones that are similar to each other. I have two Kolstein Busetto Travel basses ('06 and an '07). Both are pretty much identical. The BP-100 works great on one ('06) and not at all on the other. The one that works with the BP-100 sounds lousy with the Realist. The '07 that sounds like a telephone with the BP-100 sounds really good with the Realist. You just have to try stuff until you find what works.
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