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Double Bass upright bass physically hard to play!

#21
When I felt I was outgrowing my first Kay (big mistake), I bought a Lemur Romanian flatback that I always struggled with - but it did sound better. After 15 years of thumping on that I ended up with an upton hawkes hybrid and it's night and day how much better it sounds and how much easier it is to play.
 
#22
If I had to guess, I would guess that there are cheap stiff strings and the string height at the nut is too high.

If you can get the school to pony up for a setup done by someone different, that might help. You should do some investigation and you can find what the standard values for string height at the nut, at the end of the fingerboard are, and what the standard values for fingerboard relief are. Measure these on the bass you're playing and show the results to the appropriate person at the school.

Maybe you should take the good bass home to practice with and leave the bad one at school.
 
#23
Then it sounds like you have a real setup problem. Now that you've had a luthier try to set it up, and it is still near impossible to play, have you considered buying one and then reselling it eventually? At least then you can get something playable...I did the math and figured if I keep the Ametto bass I bought (not available through internet sales, that I'm aware of, or I would recommend it below) for six months, then the decline in value is equivalent to a rental after I sell it. And I got a new bass with decent quality, set up to my specifications.

The better quality basses, from my research, at the affordable end of the spectrum
are:

Estle Louis (Gollihur)
Englehardt (Gollihur)
Thompson (Upton bass)

All available through the mail. The Estle Louis and Thompson come set up with whatever strings you want, and the Englehardt comes "playable but may need a setup", says Gollihur Music.

I would consider checking into them. Go to Gollihurmusic and Upton's site and you can read all about them....

Everyone is also excited about Shen's, but you will have to find a dealer near you that has them, as far as I know.
 
#24
Thompson basses are available through the String Emporium, Upton makes their own. For a beginner A good bass set up is step one: light tension strings, string nut slots filed appropriately for optimal string height, string height should be on the low side for a new player. That said the physical approach to the instrument needs to be dialed in w/the help of a good teacher. Bass height, left elbow, hand and finger position are all very important. The Simandl approach will provide you with a progressive series of exercises that will build intonation, and physical skills. You have to start w/short practice sessions in order to develop endurance, strength and while not getting injured.
 
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#26
Really gotta look at technique first here. If you are in any way new to the instrument, the left hand technique is a huge hurdle to get over. If you are in school for bass, you should be getting instruction. If you are not getting instruction, then set that up right away. A teacher would be able to validate whether you have a technique problem, or a setup problem. Its hard to tell without us being there with you to try out the bass.
 
#27
Picture #2 indicates to me that the neck is bowing forwards, and consequently there is too much "scoop" in the fingerboard. Check - is the ebony/maple glue joint along the neck absolutely ruler-straight? If the joint is curved, then the neck is bending, and trying to plane the fingerboard flatter will not necessarily help. If the joint is dead straight, then its a setup issue with the fingerboard, and a luthier should be able to work the fingerboard into a more friendly profile which will make it much easier to play. It is not something you can do yourself.

In either case there is not much you can do except complain to the school!
 
#28
sean_on_bass said:
If you are in any way new to the instrument, the left hand technique is a huge hurdle to get over.
Click to expand...
And especially so on this bass! You didn't post the second and third photos when you started the thread, or at least I didn't see them. That's one of the many reasons to take lessons. Any decently trained teacher would have told you that the string height was a disaster as soon as you unpacked the thing.
 
#29
Matthew is right, in pic#2, coming off the nut, the angle between the strings & the upper FB part appears quite steep. It also seems as if some work to the FB has been done there. And in pic#3 the tail end of the FB seems to already come up. This one likely has too much scoop, or at the wrong place (probably because of earlier work in the area where most of the wear is).

Anyway, for now all you can say to the school is 'this one plays hard, the one I have at school is much better'.
 
#30
Ortsom said:
Anyway, for now all you can say to the school is 'this one plays hard, the one I have at school is much better'.
Click to expand...
You could say that. Or - based on photo #3, which shows that the string height significantly increases as you descend from the octave - you would not be wrong to say something much harsher. Diplomacy is always advised, of course. In this case I am guessing that the school is being supplied instruments by a local music store which lacks the skilled staff to be able to provide proper setups. The school is likely providing a valuable revenue stream to the store, so the music director is in a position to make certain demands. If said director wants to keep valued students in the program, then he (she) needs to insist that the store do more to make their instruments "playable". This also conforms to the interests of the store. Firstly, they don't want a bad reputation to develop. Secondly, basses with warped necks like that tend to explode after awhile, and you can't very well rent out a bass which has collapsed:)
 
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#32
Ortsom said:
Aye, the problem is of course money, budget & priority. And even if the store can do it properly, it's still work that needs to be payed for.
Click to expand...
??? I don't follow you. If the store is doing trade in rentals, then shouldn't they be expected to send out instruments with some minimum level of playability?
 
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#36
PauFerro said:
I have a really low action and just started playing upright 2 weeks ago. Like you, I found it a bear to play the thing at first. To the point I got a 1/4 size upright (35" from the bridge to the nut). And even with the shorter scale, that made me feel like I was recovering from a stroke and having to relearn how to do basic things all over again -- things I could do without thinking on electric bass.

At the nut, the strings are about the thickness of a business card on the G, D, and A strings above the fingerboard, and the a bit less than the thickness of a credit card on the E string nut area. The strings go from about 6 mm to 11 mm from the top of the fingerboard at the bridge end of the fingerboard.

But guess what -- at two-three hours a day of playing for two weeks, it's gotten way easier. So you need to give it some time and let the muscle groups in your hands, shoulders, and arms develop. My forearm and hands were fatigued and I could feel the muscle strain (like you do when you engage in healthy exercise). At one point I felt like my hands were the size of anvils as the muscles were developing. But today I woke up with no sense that my muscles are hurting and I just played for 45 minutes with no problems at all with my hands a few minutes ago. It is getting easier.

So, I suggest you give it time. Make sure the bass is at the right height. That you are standing properly with it, and that you are using the appropriate fingering for the size of the instrument. Which normally means 1-2-4 fingering and using all available fingers to press down the strings. My teacher also told me to use an full left arm and hand "pulling" motion to press down the strings. So, its not just the muscles in your hands, it's arm muscles too. I find that helps when I start fatiguing on certain notes (like F on the low E).

Good luck. I see why many of the experienced people here kept saying there was a chance I wouldn't make it on upright because the learning curve at first is tough. Your body rejects the instrument, sadly, at first. But I am finding it is getting way easier the more I stick it out.
Click to expand...
I've been playing for 4 years now, and it gets easier after awhile, But you need too know, that if you want too keep playing it, get an acoustic electric bass, it will help you practice on the go. If you want too have an easier bow, use the German bow, it's shorter, but it's a tiny bit easier too use, and it helps you from cramping a lot. I've been using French bow for 3 years, and so far 1 for German, plus it gives your thumb more muscle.
 
#37
PauFerro said:
Then it sounds like you have a real setup problem. Now that you've had a luthier try to set it up, and it is still near impossible to play, have you considered buying one and then reselling it eventually? At least then you can get something playable...I did the math and figured if I keep the Ametto bass I bought (not available through internet sales, that I'm aware of, or I would recommend it below) for six months, then the decline in value is equivalent to a rental after I sell it. And I got a new bass with decent quality, set up to my specifications.

The better quality basses, from my research, at the affordable end of the spectrum
are:

Estle Louis (Gollihur)
Englehardt (Gollihur)
Thompson (Upton bass)

All available through the mail. The Estle Louis and Thompson come set up with whatever strings you want, and the Englehardt comes "playable but may need a setup", says Gollihur Music.

I would consider checking into them. Go to Gollihurmusic and Upton's site and you can read all about them....

Everyone is also excited about Shen's, but you will have to find a dealer near you that has them, as far as I know.
Click to expand...
If you are going too get a standup bass/double bass, then DO NOT, EVEN IF YOU ARE PAID BY THE DEVIL, get a bass that isn't the color of wood, the colored ones, ARE the worse quality you can get.
 
#39
IMG_0683.JPG
Musicman195 said:
If you want too have an easier bow, use the German bow, it's shorter
Click to expand...

Wha?
 
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