Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
US income inequality at record high
- Thread starter Tony Flow MMMM
- Start date
- Status
In One Map Here's Why Washington Doesn't Care About Income Inequality
In this map, the green-shaded counties are the only counties in America with median household income above $100,000
Of the six counties in the United States with median income greater than $100,000, of course four of them are in the D.C. metro area.
Loudoun County, Va. $115,574
Falls Church City, Va. $114,409
Fairfax County, Va. $105,416
Los Alamos County, NM $103,643
Howard County, MD $103,273
Hunterdon County, NJ $100,980
In this map, the green-shaded counties are the only counties in America with median household income above $100,000
Of the six counties in the United States with median income greater than $100,000, of course four of them are in the D.C. metro area.
Loudoun County, Va. $115,574
Falls Church City, Va. $114,409
Fairfax County, Va. $105,416
Los Alamos County, NM $103,643
Howard County, MD $103,273
Hunterdon County, NJ $100,980
My neighborhood probably has median income above 100k, but most of my neighbors care about income inequality.
So, let's talk about that then. I totally agree with you on this. The average Chinese worker is getting screwed. But let's take things to their natural conclusion.
Some here have suggested we need single payer healthcare.
Some have suggested we need free education through college.
Some have suggested we need a living wage. I'm am going to make my own guess as to a range of what that is because each and every person that I talk to, and on this forum, has a different definition of what that is. I'll just throw out $12-$15 an hour full-time. (Of course, nobody is working much full time these days now are they? Suddenly 29 hours is about as much as many can get.)
Some have suggested that we can pay for a lot of this by ending the war on drugs.
Publicly fund mental health treatment.
Oh, and while we're at it, let's keep throwing a metric crapload of money at green energies that nobody (in business OR the private sector) seems to want. But let's NOT take economic advantage of our own natural resources and the employment and tax revenue it would bring.
And now we must not only quit exploiting our own workers, but Chinese ones as well.
This all sounds FANTASTIC! I like it! Let's start tomorrow! Get it going!
I really shouldn't bother going down this path of explaining how it would be impossible to carry out even HALF of this without trying to build a utopian society where suddenly Apple executives make $45 grand a year and are supposed to like it because it's for the good of the country. (Good luck with that. I imagine some very big-hearted wealthy people who go to political rallies and fuss about wealth redistribution would suddenly be not so political. Just sayin'.) But (sigh) I'm going to do it anyway.
Can you imagine? Can you actually wrap your head around what an average, ordinary, mundane, simple little item that we all take for granted would cost? Let's just say that we all agree that wages should go up a lot, AND we should no longer allow American corporations to supply us goods that are manufactured under the slave conditions the Chinese have going. So, suddenly, not only are the wages HERE going to cut way into profits, but bringing all those jobs making trinkets and plastic vomit (and about 60% or more of the other things we use every day) over in China back here to work for those new "fair living wages" as well. Everybody will be employed and there will be tons of money to go around, right? Are you silly? Lat's just say a company that currently has 20% of its production here in the US, and 80% in China has a total of 12,000 employees. Currently, the ones in China (9,600 of them) make about $3 an hour (and I really don't have any idea what they make). And the ones here in the US (2,400 of them) make an average of $15 an hour. That rounds out to about $64,800 an hour being payed out (not including whatever benefits packages the ones here get). Just under $2.6 million a week. Just over $135.7 million a year in wages alone. Suddenly, we decide to quit exploiting Chinese workers and do out own manufacturing..... with a living wage, of course. So, let's get everybody to $20 an hour. (Is that a living wage? I honestly have no idea.) Let's just say it is for fun. Now, we just jumped to barely under $500 million a year in JUST WAGES (and, again, we haven't talked any about retirement and other benefits). So, set over there on the corner of your mind's desk the fact that we suddenly expect US corporations to spend almost SEVENTY THREE PERCENT MORE on labor.
Let's take the economics of this one step further. You ALSO want the people working for distribution and retail to make a "living wage" too. So, every truck driver, fork lift operator at a warehouse, guy who stocks the shelves, guy who runs a cash register, guy who bakes the cakes, guy who waxes the floors, guy who greets you at the door, guy who answers your questions in electronics, guy who gathers the shopping carts and guy who sprays water on the veggies at Wal-Mart, Food Lion, K-Mart, and the guy who drives the truck, flips the burgers, hoses down the parking lot, cleans the bathroom, takes orders, and makes drinks at McDonald's, Burger King, BoJangles etc. to go from making under $8 an hour to making $12 an hour as well.
So, you honestly think that suddenly US corporations can start paying out billions of dollars PER HOUR more in wages and the prices of every single thing you buy are going to go up by a NICKEL? Seriously? You HONESTLY believe that? You. Are. Deranged. You need some of that new free mental health stuff.
...... and speaking of THAT!
Not only are we going to ask US corporations to billions of dollar per hour more in WAGES, but we also have to pay for the FREE STUFF!
Healthcare. Can't go down this road without being political. Let me just tie a couple together though. Ending the war on drugs, and then expecting me to pay for the healthcare later in life of someone who did drugs his whole life is a JOKE. That being said, I think the rest of the country should be able to opt out of providing your healthcare if you sat your fat butt on a couch your whole life and ate burgers and fries until you weigh 300 lbs. Or if you drank so much you now have a liver the size of basketball. Or if you smoked so much that your lungs look like the stuff I just cleaned out of my grill. (But, then again, I guess rich fat cats "create the conditions" that somehow FORCED you into bad health as well...... oy.) We'll just all have to agree that it will be expensive.
"Free" college". Couple questions. Who gets to go to Duke or Harvard, and who gets to go to Stinky Finklestein's School for Hair Design? Who gets a PHD and who has to stop at a two year technical school? And who pays for it?
Free mental health care. So, these billionaires you piss and moan about should get free mental health care? Or is it just for the working class and the poor? Oh, and who pays for it?
I'll tell you who pays for it. Corporations. The corporate tax rate would have to skyrocket. Why? There wouldn't be much capital gains to speak of. You can jack that rate up all you want because with lower profits there won;t be as much GAIN to tax. And, people will leave the stock market in droves because of the lack of returns anyway, but the increased capital gains taxes would make the exodus even faster. (If I am not making any money on my investment, AND you are going to tax the crap out of what I DO make, why would I leave it there? Answer: I wouldn't.) So, yep. The corporate tax rate would have to go through the roof.
Where were we. OH YEAH! So, now we have corporations paying out upwards of %73 more labor on the FRONT end of production, and an incalculable amount on the back end at retail, and lest we forget distribution because they will most certainly have their collective hands out as well. NOW we're going to ask those SAME people who just got SMACKED by outrageously high labor cost increases to pay for the OTHER FREE STUFF we want as well!
Soooooooooo let me see if I have this all straight. Here in utopia, everybody makes a living wage, everybody has healthcare for "free", everybody has free mental healthcare, everybody has free college, and the guys who were making billions suddenly volunteer to make a million or two a year and keep working for the good of the country (after decreased profits and higher corporate and income taxes)? The guys who were making millions suddenly make $75K a year and they keep working because its the right thing to do? The average cash or insurance visit to the doctor pays around 4 or 5 times what a government paid visit does and doctors are going to keep working for 20% of what they were making, and going to school for an extra 5 or 6 years because its good for the neighborhood? And the prices of everything we buy aren't going to go through the roof in an attempt to make up for the gagillions of dollars in lost profits? Maybe just a nickel or so?
Seems realistic. Sounds like a plan and I'm sure it has worked somewhere in history. I think it'll work here too. Sign me up.
Sorry for the long rant.
So, let's talk about that then. I totally agree with you on this. The average Chinese worker is getting screwed. But let's take things to their natural conclusion.
Some here have suggested we need single payer healthcare.
Some have suggested we need free education through college.
Some have suggested we need a living wage. I'm am going to make my own guess as to a range of what that is because each and every person that I talk to, and on this forum, has a different definition of what that is. I'll just throw out $12-$15 an hour full-time. (Of course, nobody is working much full time these days now are they? Suddenly 29 hours is about as much as many can get.)
Some have suggested that we can pay for a lot of this by ending the war on drugs.
Publicly fund mental health treatment.
Oh, and while we're at it, let's keep throwing a metric crapload of money at green energies that nobody (in business OR the private sector) seems to want. But let's NOT take economic advantage of our own natural resources and the employment and tax revenue it would bring.
And now we must not only quit exploiting our own workers, but Chinese ones as well.
This all sounds FANTASTIC! I like it! Let's start tomorrow! Get it going!
I really shouldn't bother going down this path of explaining how it would be impossible to carry out even HALF of this without trying to build a utopian society where suddenly Apple executives make $45 grand a year and are supposed to like it because it's for the good of the country. (Good luck with that. I imagine some very big-hearted wealthy people who go to political rallies and fuss about wealth redistribution would suddenly be not so political. Just sayin'.) But (sigh) I'm going to do it anyway.
Can you imagine? Can you actually wrap your head around what an average, ordinary, mundane, simple little item that we all take for granted would cost? Let's just say that we all agree that wages should go up a lot, AND we should no longer allow American corporations to supply us goods that are manufactured under the slave conditions the Chinese have going. So, suddenly, not only are the wages HERE going to cut way into profits, but bringing all those jobs making trinkets and plastic vomit (and about 60% or more of the other things we use every day) over in China back here to work for those new "fair living wages" as well. Everybody will be employed and there will be tons of money to go around, right? Are you silly? Lat's just say a company that currently has 20% of its production here in the US, and 80% in China has a total of 12,000 employees. Currently, the ones in China (9,600 of them) make about $3 an hour (and I really don't have any idea what they make). And the ones here in the US (2,400 of them) make an average of $15 an hour. That rounds out to about $64,800 an hour being payed out (not including whatever benefits packages the ones here get). Just under $2.6 million a week. Just over $135.7 million a year in wages alone. Suddenly, we decide to quit exploiting Chinese workers and do out own manufacturing..... with a living wage, of course. So, let's get everybody to $20 an hour. (Is that a living wage? I honestly have no idea.) Let's just say it is for fun. Now, we just jumped to barely under $500 million a year in JUST WAGES (and, again, we haven't talked any about retirement and other benefits). So, set over there on the corner of your mind's desk the fact that we suddenly expect US corporations to spend almost SEVENTY THREE PERCENT MORE on labor.
Let's take the economics of this one step further. You ALSO want the people working for distribution and retail to make a "living wage" too. So, every truck driver, fork lift operator at a warehouse, guy who stocks the shelves, guy who runs a cash register, guy who bakes the cakes, guy who waxes the floors, guy who greets you at the door, guy who answers your questions in electronics, guy who gathers the shopping carts and guy who sprays water on the veggies at Wal-Mart, Food Lion, K-Mart, and the guy who drives the truck, flips the burgers, hoses down the parking lot, cleans the bathroom, takes orders, and makes drinks at McDonald's, Burger King, BoJangles etc. to go from making under $8 an hour to making $12 an hour as well.
So, you honestly think that suddenly US corporations can start paying out billions of dollars PER HOUR more in wages and the prices of every single thing you buy are going to go up by a NICKEL? Seriously? You HONESTLY believe that? You. Are. Deranged. You need some of that new free mental health stuff.
...... and speaking of THAT!
Not only are we going to ask US corporations to billions of dollar per hour more in WAGES, but we also have to pay for the FREE STUFF!
Healthcare. Can't go down this road without being political. Let me just tie a couple together though. Ending the war on drugs, and then expecting me to pay for the healthcare later in life of someone who did drugs his whole life is a JOKE. That being said, I think the rest of the country should be able to opt out of providing your healthcare if you sat your fat butt on a couch your whole life and ate burgers and fries until you weigh 300 lbs. Or if you drank so much you now have a liver the size of basketball. Or if you smoked so much that your lungs look like the stuff I just cleaned out of my grill. (But, then again, I guess rich fat cats "create the conditions" that somehow FORCED you into bad health as well...... oy.) We'll just all have to agree that it will be expensive.
"Free" college". Couple questions. Who gets to go to Duke or Harvard, and who gets to go to Stinky Finklestein's School for Hair Design? Who gets a PHD and who has to stop at a two year technical school? And who pays for it?
Free mental health care. So, these billionaires you piss and moan about should get free mental health care? Or is it just for the working class and the poor? Oh, and who pays for it?
I'll tell you who pays for it. Corporations. The corporate tax rate would have to skyrocket. Why? There wouldn't be much capital gains to speak of. You can jack that rate up all you want because with lower profits there won;t be as much GAIN to tax. And, people will leave the stock market in droves because of the lack of returns anyway, but the increased capital gains taxes would make the exodus even faster. (If I am not making any money on my investment, AND you are going to tax the crap out of what I DO make, why would I leave it there? Answer: I wouldn't.) So, yep. The corporate tax rate would have to go through the roof.
Where were we. OH YEAH! So, now we have corporations paying out upwards of %73 more labor on the FRONT end of production, and an incalculable amount on the back end at retail, and lest we forget distribution because they will most certainly have their collective hands out as well. NOW we're going to ask those SAME people who just got SMACKED by outrageously high labor cost increases to pay for the OTHER FREE STUFF we want as well!
Soooooooooo let me see if I have this all straight. Here in utopia, everybody makes a living wage, everybody has healthcare for "free", everybody has free mental healthcare, everybody has free college, and the guys who were making billions suddenly volunteer to make a million or two a year and keep working for the good of the country (after decreased profits and higher corporate and income taxes)? The guys who were making millions suddenly make $75K a year and they keep working because its the right thing to do? The average cash or insurance visit to the doctor pays around 4 or 5 times what a government paid visit does and doctors are going to keep working for 20% of what they were making, and going to school for an extra 5 or 6 years because its good for the neighborhood? And the prices of everything we buy aren't going to go through the roof in an attempt to make up for the gagillions of dollars in lost profits? Maybe just a nickel or so?
Seems realistic. Sounds like a plan and I'm sure it has worked somewhere in history. I think it'll work here too. Sign me up.
Sorry for the long rant.
Sounds like things are working out perfectly, so lets not change a thing.
Cool story but about the whole can you expect the corporation to spend 73% more on labor and whatever rise a nickel..
Yea if forced to do so... After all they DID, start here, then moved to china creating a 73% profit increase and keeping the change so sure why not.
Yea if forced to do so... After all they DID, start here, then moved to china creating a 73% profit increase and keeping the change so sure why not.
I've been involved in many discussions like this. Those that know me, or are friends with me on FB know my stance here. I don't care to reiterate it, because others have done a good job expressing my viewpoint.
At this point, there are limited option as to what you as an individual can do about this. We're f'd in many ways and I believe this era of divisive internet arguing is similar to the lobsters slowly but surely realizing that the pot their swimming in is starting to boil. All people, rich and poor have three options to initiate change.
1. Follow the legal means you have at your disposal to initiate change.
***Depending how rich you are, it starts by studying the issues, writing your representatives, getting involved in local politics, voting every chance you get, volunteering at local charities that are positioned to initiate change in your interest, supporting only businesses that share your viewpoint, and following the letter of the law. This is kind of where the journey ends for most folks, but there are an elite group that do this, and continue farther down the legal road because they helped put the law in place. Now you continue on the legal journey and venture into lobbying, congressional connections, and various financial leverage including taking advantage of specific tax-loopholes that you have had a hand putting in place to express your opinion even farther by affecting the amount of budget your representative has to work with.
2. Protest.
***First you establish a moral center that will guide you down this path. If you're in the US there are certain legal accommodations that allow for this mechanism of change, and there have been moves that infringe on certain aspects of this (see the above method as to how this has come into play). The constitution protects assembly, the constitution protects speech (vocal, written (people are looking to change this by redefining the definition of 'journalism'), and now with 'spending' as they pertain to collective pools of money. With these three alone you can be rather effective, as much as the mainstream media (much of which is owned by the same folks that have the power to venture farthest down the 'legal means' road) will placate your opinion. So while you might have a legal right to express your opinion, your limited on how much you can distribute it. Beyond that you're venturing into illegal activity. You have to check your moral center for how far down this road you are willing to go. It can start with the breaking of basic municipal codes (refusing to disperse, trespassing, etc) all the way to vandalism, violence, and picking up small arms. As you can see, even here, how much money you have determines the level of effectiveness you can have at all degrees of protest. The richest will obviously wield armies and banks while the poorest will wield a loud voice and knives.
3. Revolution.
*** You are now looking to topple the power in place. I don't think I need to explain that the level of success here depends on financing. Those with the most money can buy the most violence until the power in place either submits or you and your organization perish. Both sides are now at war with each other. The power in place, in the beginning often has the media and the folks that are more willing to follow the first method on their side. They might relabel you, so while you think you are doing what is morally right, you are now a terrorist and suddenly a fugitive from the public opinion.
So unless you are willing to participate at some level, there really isn't much you can do about this as was stated in the second post.
Cheers.
At this point, there are limited option as to what you as an individual can do about this. We're f'd in many ways and I believe this era of divisive internet arguing is similar to the lobsters slowly but surely realizing that the pot their swimming in is starting to boil. All people, rich and poor have three options to initiate change.
1. Follow the legal means you have at your disposal to initiate change.
***Depending how rich you are, it starts by studying the issues, writing your representatives, getting involved in local politics, voting every chance you get, volunteering at local charities that are positioned to initiate change in your interest, supporting only businesses that share your viewpoint, and following the letter of the law. This is kind of where the journey ends for most folks, but there are an elite group that do this, and continue farther down the legal road because they helped put the law in place. Now you continue on the legal journey and venture into lobbying, congressional connections, and various financial leverage including taking advantage of specific tax-loopholes that you have had a hand putting in place to express your opinion even farther by affecting the amount of budget your representative has to work with.
2. Protest.
***First you establish a moral center that will guide you down this path. If you're in the US there are certain legal accommodations that allow for this mechanism of change, and there have been moves that infringe on certain aspects of this (see the above method as to how this has come into play). The constitution protects assembly, the constitution protects speech (vocal, written (people are looking to change this by redefining the definition of 'journalism'), and now with 'spending' as they pertain to collective pools of money. With these three alone you can be rather effective, as much as the mainstream media (much of which is owned by the same folks that have the power to venture farthest down the 'legal means' road) will placate your opinion. So while you might have a legal right to express your opinion, your limited on how much you can distribute it. Beyond that you're venturing into illegal activity. You have to check your moral center for how far down this road you are willing to go. It can start with the breaking of basic municipal codes (refusing to disperse, trespassing, etc) all the way to vandalism, violence, and picking up small arms. As you can see, even here, how much money you have determines the level of effectiveness you can have at all degrees of protest. The richest will obviously wield armies and banks while the poorest will wield a loud voice and knives.
3. Revolution.
*** You are now looking to topple the power in place. I don't think I need to explain that the level of success here depends on financing. Those with the most money can buy the most violence until the power in place either submits or you and your organization perish. Both sides are now at war with each other. The power in place, in the beginning often has the media and the folks that are more willing to follow the first method on their side. They might relabel you, so while you think you are doing what is morally right, you are now a terrorist and suddenly a fugitive from the public opinion.
So unless you are willing to participate at some level, there really isn't much you can do about this as was stated in the second post.
Cheers.
The town I live in has a glass plant where they make beer bottles that most of you have probably used once or twice. They actually have union workers there and the workers make a decent wage with benefits. With some peoples logic beer should cost about $10 a bottle but it doesn't.
For those that do t believe these topics change people's opinions... I have been guilty of arguing my side long after I realized the other side has a point. It's called pride.
This might sound crazy... But talkbass has completely changed my opinions on all things political or economic. Just 2 years ago I would have been arguing the rich create jobs deserve tax cuts and its poor people's fault there poor, and people are government assistant are lazy. (Though I have to say I have changed my views on the last topic, I have never met someone in real life on government assistant that wasn't JUST lazy. But I have read enough stories across the country to know its not so everywhere, maybe it's my location)
Just don't think we are all debating for nothing and people never. Hangs because I sure have.
This might sound crazy... But talkbass has completely changed my opinions on all things political or economic. Just 2 years ago I would have been arguing the rich create jobs deserve tax cuts and its poor people's fault there poor, and people are government assistant are lazy. (Though I have to say I have changed my views on the last topic, I have never met someone in real life on government assistant that wasn't JUST lazy. But I have read enough stories across the country to know its not so everywhere, maybe it's my location)
Just don't think we are all debating for nothing and people never. Hangs because I sure have.
How much? Here's what you do. Call a neighborhood meeting tomorrow. Have every household that makes over $100K go get $20K out of the bank and you guys take it to the other side of the tracks and give it to one of the "clearly defined" five or six classes somewhere between poverty and middle class and working class.
No? I thought so. EVERYBODY cares about income inequality until you start talking about the solutions to it. Caring in one hand and crapping in the other equals the same thing in both hands.
You care. So what. You want SOMEBODY ELSE to fix it. And by fix it, I mean give up some of THEIR income, not yours. Well, that pretty much defines just about EVERYONE who "cares". Hollywood stars...... Famous millionaire athletes..... people who are worth millions and SPEND millions running for office on a social justice platform..... Lot's of people CARE...... right up until you get to the fine print.
So, your income is unfair. The poor in your town are getting exploited. Cut out the middle man and just give them some of your money to make it right. Forget charities. Just hand it to them. I'm sure if your entire neighborhood did it you could make a real difference in the lives of dozens of families right there at home. No again? That wouldn't work? Thought so.
You care alright. Lot of good that does.
But didn't you read what happens in the story? If wages rise at the same level as inflation, it will KILL THE ENTIRE ECONOMY!!!!
How much? Here's what you do. Call a neighborhood meeting tomorrow. Have every household that makes over $100K go get $20K out of the bank and you guys take it to the other side of the tracks and give it to one of the "clearly defined" five or six classes somewhere between poverty and middle class and working class.
No? I thought so. EVERYBODY cares about income inequality until you start talking about the solutions to it. Caring in one hand and crapping in the other equals the same thing in both hands.
You care. So what. You want SOMEBODY ELSE to fix it. And by fix it, I mean give up some of THEIR income, not yours. Well, that pretty much defines just about EVERYONE who "cares". Hollywood stars...... Famous millionaire athletes..... people who are worth millions and SPEND millions running for office on a social justice platform..... Lot's of people CARE...... right up until you get to the fine print.
So, your income is unfair. The poor in your town are getting exploited. Cut out the middle man and just give them some of your money to make it right. Forget charities. Just hand it to them. I'm sure if your entire neighborhood did it you could make a real difference in the lives of dozens of families right there at home. No again? That wouldn't work? Thought so.
You care alright. Lot of good that does.
You seem to be very fixated on the idea that this discussion is about individuals taking money directly away from other less fortunate individuals and that the only proposed solution is to target anyone with money in an attempt to strip them of their wealth.
In actuality, people who are concerned about income disparity tend to be looking for solutions on a realistic, larger scale, such as ways to build more schools instead of prisons and bombs.
NOW we're getting somewhere. This is what I was waiting for. Here, in a democracy, we're going to FORCE people to give up a ton of profit. Force corporations to work with less. Force high income earners to just "deal with less". Force salary and profit caps on companies and executives.
What about share holders? Will we FORCE them to stay in the market even though their stocks will plummet as a result of lower profits?
What about doctors? Will we FORCE them to stay in business even though the government doesn't pay enough per visit to even bother with? (I have intimate knowledge of this subject so don't even try.)
Sounds like America to me. Like I said. Get it going. I'm on board.
All we have to do is get the 1% to agree to keep investing, working long hours, taking risks, and creating things for a small percentage of their usual income. Then convince the percentage of the poor who are just sitting on their fat butts living off the system to suddenly jump into the market and grab a shovel or a hammer for the new $15 an hour living wage. And convince the corporations to not raise prices even though their profits fell in the well. Convince (of FORCE) Duke and Harvard to keep their doors open for what the government sees fit as "fair" tuition.
I can see this working out well. Everybody's life would be better. And everybody would just jump on board, especially after they are told they are being FORCED to, right?
Good meeting. I'll get started on the corporations and you take the laziest of the poor. We'll meet back here for lunch at.... say...... noon tomorrow? This is gonna be GREAT!
NOW we're getting somewhere. This is what I was waiting for. Here, in a democracy, we're going to FORCE people to give up a ton of profit. Force corporations to work with less. Force high income earners to just "deal with less". Force salary and profit caps on companies and executives.
What about share holders? Will we FORCE them to stay in the market even though their stocks will plummet as a result of lower profits?
What about doctors? Will we FORCE them to stay in business even though the government doesn't pay enough per visit to even bother with? (I have intimate knowledge of this subject so don't even try.)
Sounds like America to me. Like I said. Get it going. I'm on board.
All we have to do is get the 1% to agree to keep investing, working long hours, taking risks, and creating things for a small percentage of their usual income. Then convince the percentage of the poor who are just sitting on their fat butts living off the system to suddenly jump into the market and grab a shovel or a hammer for the new $15 an hour living wage. And convince the corporations to not raise prices even though their profits fell in the well. Convince (of FORCE) Duke and Harvard to keep their doors open for what the government sees fit as "fair" tuition.
I can see this working out well. Everybody's life would be better. And everybody would just jump on board, especially after they are told they are being FORCED to, right?
Good meeting. I'll get started on the corporations and you take the laziest of the poor. We'll meet back here for lunch at.... say...... noon tomorrow? This is gonna be GREAT!
LMAO. You're hilarious.
So, let's stop talking about government mandated "redistribution" for a moment, since that seems to be the biggest point of contention, even when rebuking someone who had nothing to say about it. Does anyone disagree with the premise that the average US worker (not professional or executive) today gets paid less (adjusted for inflation) for doing the same job as a worker would have 25 years ago?
If he doesn't get paid less in raw (inflation adjusted) dollars for doing the same job, is his salary a lower percentage of a given company's total profit than it was 25 years ago?
I don't have sources to provide answers to these questions. What does TB think? I think that's the real gripe of many folks: they don't get paid as much as their parents did for doing the same job because the fellas at the top are letting less trickle down to the workers than they used to. That's apolitical as far as I'm concerned because it has nothing to do with minumum wage, govt. mandates or any other loaded buzzwords thrown around to divert the conversation. Is there merit to the fundamental assumption that equally hard workers are getting a crappier cut in 2013?
If he doesn't get paid less in raw (inflation adjusted) dollars for doing the same job, is his salary a lower percentage of a given company's total profit than it was 25 years ago?
I don't have sources to provide answers to these questions. What does TB think? I think that's the real gripe of many folks: they don't get paid as much as their parents did for doing the same job because the fellas at the top are letting less trickle down to the workers than they used to. That's apolitical as far as I'm concerned because it has nothing to do with minumum wage, govt. mandates or any other loaded buzzwords thrown around to divert the conversation. Is there merit to the fundamental assumption that equally hard workers are getting a crappier cut in 2013?
Sooooooo I guess we do that by only taking away a certain percentage from the wealthy....... mean people? And we leave the good wealthy people alone? Or are you saying that by building fewer prisons and bombs that actually frees up enough money to just pay anyone not making a living wage the difference in their income and that living wage? I don't follow. What ARE you suggesting we do?
You don't seem to agree with my fake plan. What is your fake plan?
My starting wage at my current job was higher than what my father earned in his union job, which he spent his whole life at, when he retired ten years ago. My dad retired earning about 40k. My first year at this job is coming to a close and I will end up somewhere around 60. By this time next year I will earn approximately $8/hr more than I do now. So no, I think I definitely earn more money than my father did. Even adjusted for inflation.
- Status
