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US income inequality at record high

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I'm not sure where you live but it is a strange place. I have never heard of a machinist making so little. Not even twenty years ago. In many of the factories I have done work in, they are some of the highest paid tradesmen there. I have even done work in a few places where they made so much more than the average worker that they ate lunch in their shop so as to avoid the conversations about wages at the lunch table. (I used to work with a contractor that did some CAD/CNC machine installs. I don't know much about the field or the machines as I simply ran power to the install. But I did have conversations with the guys in the shops.) In fact, here in little ole' Eastern NC the average assembly line worker makes more than that. And many aren't even union plants.

Machinists making $15 an hour. Really...... They should all move. Pretty much anywhere but where you are they would have a better life. In fact, tell them to come here. I'll open my own shop and pay them that much and let them play whatever radio station they want all day.

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You're right, I'm exaggerating. Let's cut that whole remark. It's late, I have bourbon and too many things to keep straight in my head. All of my buddies are just general line workers and make around the $12 mark. I've rechecked with a pal who said welders hit $15-18 and machinists go in the $18-20. Most folks are working about 9 months out of the year.

It's also a horror story of one plant dominating a little town. It was supposed to be shocking because it was an anecdote. I've lived in nearby rural towns and had former roomate who made between over $25/hour as a machinist in a little burg only 100 miles away.
 
For those that do t believe these topics change people's opinions... I have been guilty of arguing my side long after I realized the other side has a point. It's called pride.

This might sound crazy... But talkbass has completely changed my opinions on all things political or economic. Just 2 years ago I would have been arguing the rich create jobs deserve tax cuts and its poor people's fault there poor, and people are government assistant are lazy. (Though I have to say I have changed my views on the last topic, I have never met someone in real life on government assistant that wasn't JUST lazy. But I have read enough stories across the country to know its not so everywhere, maybe it's my location)

Just don't think we are all debating for nothing and people never. Hangs because I sure have.

I now use 12au7 tubes due to a post or five on TB.

I once dismissed them as low gain junk.

I gave them a chance and they sound great.
 
Well let me say this. I spent my entire adult life, other than the past 11 months, as a carpenter. I was in the union in the 80s. I have done residential and commercial.

My opinion is that you are ridiculously overpaid and if you are union, I am willing to bet that the kid who I sold my business to last year and who worked for me for 2 years prior to that, is twice the carpenter most of you guys are and I paid him $20/hr.

It depends on where you are located. Around here you have to make 100k to live like a pauper.

That 20.00 would afford me the ability to go to Mcdonalds twice. Woo-pee!

oh wait, I'd have to leave the wife and kids at home....... Never mind.
 
Two parties got greedy. The bank and singer. A lot of folks bought more than they could afford. It was all fun and games until someone handed them the bill.

Without a doubt the singer was greedy, but his greed only really has an impact on himself. Banks providing numerous dodgy mortgages starts to put the sensible folks at risk. When it all goes down the pan the banks in general didn't really suffer from their lack of responsibility, the singer probably did.
 
Without a doubt the singer was greedy, but his greed only really has an impact on himself. Banks providing numerous dodgy mortgages starts to put the sensible folks at risk. When it all goes down the pan the banks in general didn't really suffer from their lack of responsibility, the singer probably did.

The problem was that he was not the only one making this decision. I've even known a few folks who did similar things like interest only loans.
 
The problem was that he was not the only one making this decision. I've even known a few folks who did similar things like interest only loans.

Without doubt, I'm just saying that it was the bank that was risking the safety of the sensible customers.

Interest only loans are pretty daft right now, I'll give you that. Though they can work for the individual in some instances, if you know you can get a quick turn around and profit on the property. Though it will artificially increase prices and was probably one of the contributing factors to the housing bubble!
 
(Of course, nobody is working much full time these days now are they? Suddenly 29 hours is about as much as many can get.)

Can't comment on what it's like there, but over here permanent contracts are rare and the number of jobs offering full time employment is dropping. It's often not choice (though more and more folks are working multiple part time jobs)


Oh, and while we're at it, let's keep throwing a metric crapload of money at green energies that nobody (in business OR the private sector) seems to want. But let's NOT take economic advantage of our own natural resources and the employment and tax revenue it would bring.

Aren't business and the private sector generally the same thing?

As per green energies, green isn't my particular interest, sustainable is. Sustainable costs more in the immediate and doesn't rely on finite resources. What private company would want to risk a reduction in profits for a few years?


And now we must not only quit exploiting our own workers, but Chinese ones as well.

This all sounds FANTASTIC! I like it! Let's start tomorrow! Get it going!

While it may not be something you're overly bothered about, it's certainly something to be aware of, because there are a lot of pushes for improved conditions, coming from within China itself.

Re - Living wage, a living wage in the US and China wouldn't be the same. A living wage needs to be calculated based on the cost of living in any given area. As it stands, I think it's fair to say it costs a lot more to live in the US than it does in China.

Also, on the note of China. While it may save the company money by having workers in China, that's money which is leaving the US and going to China and helping their economy. Money, as it is, isn't finite, and wealth can grow. Sure. But who in the US is making money from having workers in China? If the workers are US based that's money being spent in the US, going towards jobs in the US, which gives those US workers money, most of which will then be spent in the US.


Healthcare. Can't go down this road without being political. Let me just tie a couple together though. Ending the war on drugs, and then expecting me to pay for the healthcare later in life of someone who did drugs his whole life is a JOKE. That being said, I think the rest of the country should be able to opt out of providing your healthcare if you sat your fat butt on a couch your whole life and ate burgers and fries until you weigh 300 lbs. Or if you drank so much you now have a liver the size of basketball. Or if you smoked so much that your lungs look like the stuff I just cleaned out of my grill. (But, then again, I guess rich fat cats "create the conditions" that somehow FORCED you into bad health as well...... oy.) We'll just all have to agree that it will be expensive.

Most of us need healthcare at some point in life. Yes, there are scumbags that will be using it too, though you need to remember that they are a statistical minority. As for smokes, tax from them can go into healthcare.

When it comes to costs of healthcare, doesn't it bother you are gambling with the house (i.e. to lose) when it comes to insurance companies. These insurance companies are out to make as much profit as they can. Coupled with hospitals which are also out there to make a profit. Most of what you are paying isn't for your healthcare, it's to line the pocket of someone in a boardroom.


"Free" college". Couple questions. Who gets to go to Duke or Harvard, and who gets to go to Stinky Finklestein's School for Hair Design? Who gets a PHD and who has to stop at a two year technical school? And who pays for it?

Merit is usually a wise choice for people following education. I'd rather have a doctor that got into medical school because of his own smarts, not just because daddy bought him a place.

Tax pools can pay for it and provision of an undergraduate degree is usually a fairly allowable expenditure. If you get a degree, you'd hopefully be a stronger earner, paying more tax, which goes back towards the next generation.


Free mental health care. So, these billionaires you piss and moan about should get free mental health care? Or is it just for the working class and the poor? Oh, and who pays for it?

I've thoroughly enjoyed each visit I've had to the US, even the time I landed in hospital myself. However, the one sour note I've always left with was the number of clealy mentally ill people who are on the streets. Not that other countries are without issue, far from it. I just haven't seen it to that extent in any other developed nation.


I'll state that I'm fully aware that things where I'm from are far from perfect. However . . .

-If the government here was to ever try and remove the NHS, the people wouldn't have it. While not perfect, we hold our health service with the same level of reverence as the Military and Fire services are held in the US.

-I'm proud that my country is making positive moves in regards to sustainable energy (~40% at present).

-Education is a positive boost for society, I'm glad that I didn't have to pay tuition fee's, that I was able to get into my school of choice - based on merit. That I gained entry to, and funding for, my masters - based on merit. That my PhD position, and scholarship, were offered to me (and taken) - based on merit.

Is it a utopia here? Far from it. Though I wouldn't want to start pushing our healthcare, energy or educational approaches backwards from where they are now.
 
Without a doubt the singer was greedy, but his greed only really has an impact on himself. Banks providing numerous dodgy mortgages starts to put the sensible folks at risk. When it all goes down the pan the banks in general didn't really suffer from their lack of responsibility, the singer probably did.

No, it's my opinion that his greed impacted WaMu which in turn impacted the entire US.

I saw the results of this persons greed in my own life.
 
Can't comment on what it's like there, but over here permanent contracts are rare and the number of jobs offering full time employment is dropping. It's often not choice (though more and more folks are working multiple part time jobs)




Aren't business and the private sector generally the same thing?

As per green energies, green isn't my particular interest, sustainable is. Sustainable costs more in the immediate and doesn't rely on finite resources. What private company would want to risk a reduction in profits for a few years?




While it may not be something you're overly bothered about, it's certainly something to be aware of, because there are a lot of pushes for improved conditions, coming from within China itself.

Re - Living wage, a living wage in the US and China wouldn't be the same. A living wage needs to be calculated based on the cost of living in any given area. As it stands, I think it's fair to say it costs a lot more to live in the US than it does in China.

Also, on the note of China. While it may save the company money by having workers in China, that's money which is leaving the US and going to China and helping their economy. Money, as it is, isn't finite, and wealth can grow. Sure. But who in the US is making money from having workers in China? If the workers are US based that's money being spent in the US, going towards jobs in the US, which gives those US workers money, most of which will then be spent in the US.




Most of us need healthcare at some point in life. Yes, there are scumbags that will be using it too, though you need to remember that they are a statistical minority. As for smokes, tax from them can go into healthcare.

When it comes to costs of healthcare, doesn't it bother you are gambling with the house (i.e. to lose) when it comes to insurance companies. These insurance companies are out to make as much profit as they can. Coupled with hospitals which are also out there to make a profit. Most of what you are paying isn't for your healthcare, it's to line the pocket of someone in a boardroom.




Merit is usually a wise choice for people following education. I'd rather have a doctor that got into medical school because of his own smarts, not just because daddy bought him a place.

Tax pools can pay for it and provision of an undergraduate degree is usually a fairly allowable expenditure. If you get a degree, you'd hopefully be a stronger earner, paying more tax, which goes back towards the next generation.




I've thoroughly enjoyed each visit I've had to the US, even the time I landed in hospital myself. However, the one sour note I've always left with was the number of clealy mentally ill people who are on the streets. Not that other countries are without issue, far from it. I just haven't seen it to that extent in any other developed nation.


I'll state that I'm fully aware that things where I'm from are far from perfect. However . . .

-If the government here was to ever try and remove the NHS, the people wouldn't have it. While not perfect, we hold our health service with the same level of reverence as the Military and Fire services are held in the US.

-I'm proud that my country is making positive moves in regards to sustainable energy (~40% at present).

-Education is a positive boost for society, I'm glad that I didn't have to pay tuition fee's, that I was able to get into my school of choice - based on merit. That I gained entry to, and funding for, my masters - based on merit. That my PhD position, and scholarship, were offered to me (and taken) - based on merit.

Is it a utopia here? Far from it. Though I wouldn't want to start pushing our healthcare, energy or educational approaches backwards from where they are now.

Alllow me to mention that the US spends plenty on things like education and health care. We do have an issue with special interests groups that gloom up more than their share.

We have certain Special Interest Group that have gotten what we call Sold Platinum Health Care. The rest of us left largely to our own devices.

The same with education. We have public schools until 18, 21 for some less able types. There is also many State Colleges with reasonable tuition available. The problem is many people can't get into them due to a lack of ability. SO they enter into a world of life long debt so they can party for 4 years at the party school of their choice.
 
Alllow me to mention that the US spends plenty on things like education and health care. We do have an issue with special interests groups that gloom up more than their share.

We have certain Special Interest Group that have gotten what we call Sold Platinum Health Care. The rest of us left largely to our own devices.

The same with education. We have public schools until 18, 21 for some less able types. There is also many State Colleges with reasonable tuition available. The problem is many people can't get into them due to a lack of ability. SO they enter into a world of life long debt so they can party for 4 years at the party school of their choice.

I just think with healthcare there should be a pretty decent minimal level provided to everyone for free at point of care.

The best schools do have pretty high tuition fees, and those best schools do carry reputations which matter in many professional fields. As for party schools, presumably the bit of paper the student ends up with isn't worth much. That's more a case of needing to be ontop of colleges so that they are providing a service that they can backup (ie - not a useless bit of paper).
 
I just think with healthcare there should be a pretty decent minimal level provided to everyone for free at point of care.....

i don't exactly disagree with you....i will just point out that there is no such thing as FREE...unless God himself comes down and starts providing it...someone has to pay for it.

in America, we have pretty much decided that we are going to pay for it by continuing to sell bonds to China et al....

i wonder what will happen if the buyers are suddenly no longer quite as willing to buy...

oh, well, Americans don't seem to care and so neither will i....i'll just take a wait & see attitude....i suspect something pretty bad tho'....wonder who we'll blame....look in the mirror maybe?...nah...it's got to be someone else's fault...right?

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