US income inequality at record high

[Tony Flow MMMM]

So I'm getting the impression that the slaves building the pyramids thought that was fair. According toy our post.

That's just the way I'm reading. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me.

I really was just asking, but nobody here is a slave.

 

[spade2you]

Now we have a new problem!!!

We have a lot of complex problems and some are interconnected, which makes finding solutions extremely difficult and unlikely.

 

[HolmeBass]

My wife and I work until late July every year to pay our taxes between state, federal, property, capital gains, and a laundry list of others. The government is kind enough to allow us to keep everything we make for not quite the second HALF OF THE YEAR. Is that fair?

Millions of people in this country pay none. Is that fair?

The poorest among us pay none. So how are "regressive tax rates" keeping them from moving upwards? Just curious.

Utterly false statement. You are considering only income tax. The Social Security/FICA load makes the lower end of the US tax code ridiculously regressive. And maybe you're not really that rich after all? Mitt Romney only works to about 1/2 way through February to pay his tax burden.

 

[HolmeBass]

Do YOU think it is fair for me to work more than half the year to pay taxes?

Yes, just like the rest of us do!

 

[Ziltoid]

I don't pay taxes.

 

[BawanaRik]

I don't pay taxes.

As I recall you're from the great white north.

And GST is around 13% for most of Canada..

It' s been suggested to try that here.

It's supposed had a positive effect on the Canadian economy

 

[fdeck]

Canada also has a cool program where they will give you a permanent work visa if you show up with a certain amount of investment capital.

 

[BawanaRik]

Canada also has a cool program where they will give you a permanent work visa if you show up with a certain amount of investment capital.

I may be wrong but I think it's a million bucks. Most of Europe will do the same with 1.3 million euros.

 

[DerHoggz]

As I recall you're from the great white north.

And GST is around 13% for most of Canada..

It' s been suggested to try that here.

It's supposed had a positive effect on the Canadian economy

GST is 5%. State taxes may add on to that.

 

[Ziltoid]

As I recall you're from the great white north.

And GST is around 13% for most of Canada..

It' s been suggested to try that here.

It's supposed had a positive effect on the Canadian economy

I pay sale taxes (14.975% in Quebec) but I don't pay taxes on income, etc. Because a: I'm broke and b: I'm a student.

Well technically I do pay some (not much) income taxes but get it all back.

Edit: and I get a GST return once in a while.

 

[skychief]

Strange, seeing as all you see on the news these days is that nobody can figure out how the stock market is doing so well, while the economy as a whole is not. So, your 401K hasn't bounced back? Everybody I know seems to be back in the good. Now, if those people GOT OUT while their accounts were down, then they have reason to sing the blues. But if you rode it out with the rest of us you should be back in pretty good shape.

Even a tiny little account I have from a job I only had for a short time came back. When I discovered it in 2000 it was $7000. It went down to $4800. Now it sits at $9400. Not the doubled return you thought was a given (which never was in the first place) but at least back on top. (Oh crap. Another anecdote. Never mind. It couldn't have possibly happened if it didn't happen to everyone.)

I never said it was a given. I just said it was reasonable to expect that it should double (portfolio value in 12 yrs) .

You are blessed.

Some of us drones have not been so fortunate.

But when the zombie apocalypse comes, none of this matters.

 

[two fingers]

Utterly false statement. You are considering only income tax. The Social Security/FICA load makes the lower end of the US tax code ridiculously regressive. And maybe you're not really that rich after all? Mitt Romney only works to about 1/2 way through February to pay his tax burden.

His taxes are on capital gains. Mine are mostly on income. Much higher rate. So YOURS is an "utterly false statement".

As far as SS/FICA "taxes" go, are we NOW saying that the poor should also get Social Security in their later years without having PAID INTO the system? That is not a tax my friend. That is a government mandated savings account. You get it BACK. So it is NOT A TAX. Privately funded retirement will have to be a thread for another day.

 

[two fingers]

Yes, just like the rest of us do!

Uh, no sir. Not all of us do that BY FAR. Middle class, working class, lower class and all fifteen classes in between do not. Then there are also the people who get paid primarily in stock dividends. their tax rate is much lower (which I'm fine with). But the fact remains that only a small percentage of us (maybe.... oh I don't know...... ONE PERCENT?) do that.

 

[two fingers]

I don't know your situation, or how much you make. As for me.. I was getting taxed 36% which is slightly more than 1/3 of the year in your terms. But then come tax season along with my minor write offs I only ended up paying 7% this is for a lowly electrician

I can only imagine the tax write offs for a buisness owner.

Soooooooooooo for the "working class" to play the system and pay lower tax rates using "loopholes" is fine. But if you make a lot of money it is not.


Selective morality much?

 

[Tony Flow MMMM]

Soooooooooooo for the "working class" to play the system and pay lower tax rates using "loopholes" is fine. But if you make a lot of money it is not.


Selective morality much?

I'm for doing away with all loopholes. Seems its big businesses find and exploit all of them.

 

[fdeck]

I'm for doing away with all loopholes. Seems its big businesses find and exploit all of them.

Impossible. The economy is too complex. The best we can hope for is a system that evolves along with the economy. As loopholes are discovered, they have to be closed. At the same time, obsolete or counterproductive provisions in the tax code have to be swept out. But new loopholes will open up.

The system has to be constantly corrected. The only way that this can happen is if major loopholes are brought to the attention of the public. This is where activism becomes important.

This is also where "fairness" enters the picture, because an appeal to fairness -- even if it is subjective -- is one of the ways to promote and achieve reform.

On the other hand, it's easy to see the economic reason for discouraging loopholes, simply because loopholes shift the tax burden from people who have relatively complex financial lives, to those whose financial lives are relatively simple, i.e., the middle class. And shifting the tax burden to the middle class drags down the economy.

 

[BawanaRik]

His taxes are on capital gains. Mine are mostly on income. Much higher rate. So YOURS is an "utterly false statement".

As far as SS/FICA "taxes" go, are we NOW saying that the poor should also get Social Security in their later years without having PAID INTO the system? That is not a tax my friend. That is a government mandated savings account. You get it BACK. So it is NOT A TAX. Privately funded retirement will have to be a thread for another day.

Oy, it's not a government mandated saving system.

It's 13% of your money being flushed. Goodbye. So Long Dooie, Si jin. Aufedersehen Sayonara. Get the drift. It's gone.

 

[BawanaRik]

I'm for doing away with all loopholes. Seems its big businesses find and exploit all of them.

It's been suggested. Flat 15% for everyone. I supported it.

I really can't see the mortgage deduction. Since we just had debt inspired crisis the last thing we need is more debt. Heck tax the debt people have rather than the fruits of their labor.

Flat 15%. This is the simple fair solution everyone wants .

 

[Truktek2]

But the fact remains that only a small percentage of us (maybe.... oh I don't know...... ONE PERCENT?) do that.

Why do I suddenly feel like we're being trolled.

According to your profile you were on the road for 22 years (as a working musician?) had up to 32 bass students. Drive in a 1000.00 car as per the "chasing me in the mall thread" (with a broken door handle if memory serves me correctly)

Collect rent from shady people in your section 8 rental units and YOU PLAY BASS?

Exactly what 1% are you a part of?

Not that I'm looking to start a fight or anything, after all, according to your sig, you must be one bad@&& mofo.

 

[two fingers]

I need to get something out of the way........

My writing style (so I've been told) is not very...... nice. Even my family members have a hard time with emails from me on occasion. I guess I am kind of a crass, sarcastic kind of guy. Quite often I am taken way too literally and way too seriously.

So, for the record, I don't hate anyone here. I don't think any of you are idiots (even if I actually type that word I don't mean it. I say it all the time to my closest friends and family members.) I have truly enjoyed this discussion even though some of us obviously disagree on many points. And I love this country no matter which direction it goes. And I don't wish anyone any ill will. Quite the opposite.

It truly bothers me that the vast majority of people, NONE of whom are any less talented than I, have been convinced that the "cards are stacked against them". They have been CONDITIONED to think there is no use in even trying because there are people who would put roadblocks in their way. This is a sad and ridiculous notion. Just about anyone, from the poorest among us, can make huge strides in the right direction if CONVINCED they can. I often go to the deity of my choice (almost got me on religion there, didn't you) to help me with something. If I ever come across anyone who tries to convince my children that they CAN'T accomplish something because of something SOMEONE ELSE will do to stop them, it will be all I can do to avoid violence. To me, that is the most soul crushing thing you can do to a person........ pound into their head that there is no use in going for it because your dreams will never be recognized.

This is the angle from which my hardcore opinions flow. My grandfather was my hero. Without going into too much rambling, he came up through the depression and not only survived, but thrived. Nobody today even understands what real hardship is. this thing we just went through was no Great Depression. And he did it from pure poverty. My father did the same. THESE are the stories we should see on the news. THESE are the things our children should be hearing! Not a bunch of talking heads sitting around spinning the line of the day about how "Things are so unfair in this country that only a few could POSSIBLY succeed in this climate. And even those people already made it before they tried because some rich guy had their back." Give me a break. That simply is not true. It isn't. Period.

Successful people used to be HEROES. Now they are filthy, greedy and the ENEMY. Are there bad actors in the "1%" (dumbest term on Earth)? Sure. But some of them are amazing men and women. And their stories could be used to INSPIRE people (particularly young people). But we lump them into one big ball of greed and contempt.

(Stop rambling TF)

Either way. You guys are great. I think I have bothered you enough for one topic. I'm sure that both my opinions and tone have offended some. For the latter I am truly sorry. For the former I am truly not. But I respect your right to disagree as well.

Carry on TBOT!