Using a B string “correctly”

[KickingBass]

The most important note on a B string is the Eb - especially when you’re playing with horns or keys. They gravitate towards the flat key signatures. The proper use of a five string is something like this:

1) Buy a five string

1A) Realize that muting is a lot different than on a four string.

2) Take it to practice and see how many songs you can play on only the B and E strings. Go ahead, get it out of your system.

3) Wonder if you should just play four strings. Jaco, you know.

4) Realize that you’re using the B string as a thumb rest.

5) Learn the notes on the B string above the fifth fret.

6) Start to adapt to the new possibilities- you don’t have to jump down to the first fret to play an F.

7) Use your ears. Know where you sit in the mix, how the room / PA is reacting to the low notes. Use the low notes tastefully when you’re in the right setting. Drop it to A and drone on low notes when you’re in another setting.

8) Realize you need a bigger amp for the low notes.

That sounds incredibly like my progression through owning 5 string basses and tuning BEAD for years haha I guess that’s probably how it goes for everyone.

 

[KickingBass]

It's a string on a stringed instrument. Use it however you feel the need to use it.

Having it does allow you to play in a higher position on the neck and still have access to low notes without changing position.

As for sound being muddy, that's an eq issue, not a 5 string issue. Try easing up on the low end freq of your bass. I don't know what the ideal x-over freq for your bass and the kick would be for your church, but find it and cut everything below that freq from your bass FOH signal. Gives the kick room to thump and your bass will be mud free.

Just to clarify, do you mean that there shouldn’t be bass guitar in the subs?

 

[swarfrat]

I've tuned both my BEAD bass and Baritone acoustic guitars to C# before. It has aspects that I like, but it's easier to transpose fourth in my head watching other people than other intervals.

 

[bucephylus]

The most important thing is to be musical with your lines. The B string just has a few lower notes. You still need to construct your lines to reinforce the chords and provide counter melodies where appropriate. When played correctly, the B string becomes transparently integrated with the other strings.

That said, taking your lines into the lower register tends to make the music heavier. So, use that part of the register when you intend that kind of voicing. FWIW, the Beethoven 6th has some excellent examples.

 

[levis76]

Just to clarify, do you mean that there shouldn’t be bass guitar in the subs?

No, what I meant was to make sure your bass and the kick are not eq'd the same. Each should have their own eq'd freq range and they should not cross over much or one will bury the other in the mix, whichever is loudest.

 

[LowActionHero]

If you can't trust your soundguy to EQ it right, sometimes you gotta take matters into your own hands... Or feet...

 

[KickingBass]

If you can't trust your soundguy to EQ it right, sometimes you gotta take matters into your own hands... Or feet...

I am the sound man so... this might hurt haha

 

[LowActionHero]

I am the sound man so... this might hurt haha

Yeah, no offense intended, I have to run sound sometimes, but if your not happy with your low B, might be time to EQ on your end. My low (drop) D was bothering me the other day, borrowed a screwdriver and adjusted my pickups.
Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

 

[Ric5]

*background info here to start, you can skip* I’ve had a bit of change of heart lately. I recently moved to a new church where I am probably the most knowledgeable bassist. As such I don’t have anyone telling me how to play (as happened in my last church). In my last church I was told to use my B string heavily. I was asked to use low C, D, and E, etc. as the root of many songs and to use the B strings notes as much as possible. Since that is how I learned to play, I thought that was just the way it should be. However, the sound was usually very muddy in the PA, and we always thought it must be a high pass filter/crossover/low frequency problem. I’m now suspecting it was the heavy B string use. I was told to use it often so that the low end would be very present in the church and because playing higher would make me lost in the mix.

*The question: was I using the B string the “wrong” way? I’m starting to think that it should only be used for accents and not as a starting point for songs (at least not a starting point for anything below E). If I play in regular 4 string territory, will the overall low end of the band be lost? I’m the sound tech at my church as well so any mixing advice is appreciated as well (I’m still learning). Thanks for any help in advance!

a muddy low B can be from fat strings

Try thinner strings, and try turning down the bass and turning up the mids.

Also the lowest note is not always the best note to play.

 

[Swampish]

I use my MTD Heir 5 pretty sparingly, but when I do use it, it's often for drop D songs or occasionally when I think a particular song sounds cooler with a run going an octave down instead of up or I invert throughout the song for fun or accent.
When I do end up on the B, even with tweaking, it tends to get a little electric farty (thanks Sting). For whatever my experience is worth, I do like to use it more as an accent. I find that if you go there less often, it has more impact. Often in a bridge or part of a chorus, you drop low and will inevitably get your guitarist looking at you and give you that "Nice!" nod of the head (that is, if he's not too busy soloing and making guitar faces).

 

[TH63]

I understand there isn’t a correct way persay and that’s why I put it in quotation marks in my OP. What I mean is, is it really essential to the overall sound of the band to play so low or am I just adding to the muddiness? Do any of you all play on the B string as much as the E string for example?

Scott devine has the best answer. He's on youtube

 

[Ddshel]

I play a 5 most of the time in church. The worship leader loves the 'D' on the 'B' string for the opening measures of a few songs. I must admit, it does fill the room gloriously. It is my favorite note on the 'B' string. I run thru an RNDI and a Trace Elliot Dual Compressor then into the house PA

 

[mupchu]

The use of the low B is highly subjective, and also depends on what the PA system and your own rig can handle. Generally you need more amperage and the sound system that can support it. That is not to mention the sound engineer to help it sit right in the mix. Also depends on the music you are playing in church, and the instrumentation in general. Best advice I can give is ask for a recording of the service and listen back to it at home when your ears are fresh.

Let me put it another way. Does anyone tell a painter not to use the darkest color, or they only get to use half of their color palette? Learn to paint with all the colors and let your taste decade where and when they get used. For the record I prefer playing with a 5 string, especially at church where you are asked to pedal a low D, and have to deal with keyboards and organs (each of which has a greater range).

 

[tree_trunker]

I will preface my response by saying I haven't read all comments yet, but I will and may have more to say later. I use my B string ALL the time, but MUCH of the time it higher up the fret board. As for the low D, C, B area sounding muddy; that isn't a fingering or playing problem (mostly). That is a sound system problem. Low B is 30.87 Hz. Not many churches will have subwoofers tuned that low. Most bass cabs aren't tuned anywhere close to that. From my experience, 50-60 Hz seems to be standard tuning for bass cabs.

As a designer and builder of many home audio, car audio and live sound subwoofers, I can tell you there are many differences. However, to hear the fundamental low B0, your cabinet must be tuned around 30-31 Hz or at least on the lower side of the 30-60 octave. Can you get 30 Hz from a cabinet tuned to 60 Hz? Well...yes, but because the woofer will "unload" quickly below the tuning frequency. I often see bassists referring to their speakers "farting out!" That's the sound of the pro-designed woofer unloading, and that will sooner or later damage the voice coil. In a subwoofer designed for pro use, the same thing can/will happen if pushed too far. If they aren't being pushed that hard, the sound produced will simply sound "muddy" because of the overly-flapping woofers unloading below their tuning frequency.

Along with my 5-string bass, my Aguilar TH500 head, and my many top cabinets; I have an 18" woofer in an 8 ft3 cabinet tuned to 30 Hz powered by a 1500-watt RMS amp. My system sounds very clean. I've never been accused of it sounding muddy. Since my 18" cab is tuned lower than many subs, often the sound coming through the subs must be reduced or rolled off because THEY sound muddy when I get down on those lower notes on the B string.

Some people have referred to using a high-pass filter. I even saw 50 Hz as the suggested frequency. Well, it depends on what slope the filter is set at; but if it's a 24 db/octave filter set at 50 Hz, that means your B fundamental frequency will be down 20-24 db below the 2nd harmonic. Many people are happy with that sound, and that's OK if you choose that. I, personally, don't like missing the fundamental. That's why I have my system that many will think is overkill! It's all personal preference, so I just wanted to give you my 2-cents worth. We ALL should enjoy what we do! That's the best part! Don't sweat the rest!

BTW, those that say playing on the B string gets into the range of the kick drum must be playing with a VERY poorly tuned kick drum in the mix. A properly tuned kick drum will resonate around 60-80 Hz on the low end which falls right in the middle of the fundamentals of the A & D strings on bass. That's why a lot of bassists like to use some low-mid emphasis to "punch" through the mix above the kick drum. However, if you can use the fundamentals below the kick drum and if there is proper subwoofer sound support, you will not blend in with the kick drum.

 

[RVAbassman]

FWIW - I play 5 in my church and agree with all you are saying. I used to be the sound man and so have similar input autonomy.
When I play below low E, it can get muddy. I think I stumbled upon something that helps. I use a Keeley bassist compressor. It’s capable of applying some clean boost with a minimal amount of compression and setting a pretty high threshold. So what I get is clean boost and not much comp the only kicks in if I really dig in. So that helps. Also I play direct, and suspect you do too. My DI is a sansamp para. It has the ability apply a rumble as well as an air filter. I use the rumble filter and that seems to make my lows way less boomy. I think it kinda acts as a high pass filter of sorts. The para also has a blendable drive knob. I add a 50/50 blend of the drive knob at around 10 o’clock. Which also helps I think.

100% of the time I don’t start Uber-low on the b string. It’s a cool component to add to your playing, but I just don’t bring it in right off the bat. It’s more of an emphasis thing once the tune gets rolling. I rarely go below the low E. In my opinion, the tone just disappears into the kick drum freq range. I might rarely use it as a passing note, but going below e like that is more of an effects trick for me than an actual note ina song played with intent or anything


Hope this helps!!

I agree with the statement above. The B string shouldn’t stand out as noticeably louder or otherwise different than the E. I’ve been playing in church for close to ten years now, both fretted 5 and fretless 6, and just use the low B when it makes sense for the song. I definitely use it for convenience as well, like when my should is acting up I can use the B to not have to reach down to the first few frets to play in E-G range. I tend to use the D’s and C’s almost like you would Taurus pedals, long sustained notes like in the bridge. But ultimately just serve the song with your note and tonal choices.

 

[Craig the Rev]

I understand there isn’t a correct way persay and that’s why I put it in quotation marks in my OP. What I mean is, is it really essential to the overall sound of the band to play so low or am I just adding to the muddiness? Do any of you all play on the B string as much as the E string for example?

I have a 5-string Schecter- about 2 yrs old and a 4-string 1997 MIM Fender Jazz bass.
I’m much faster on the slender Jazz neck, so I use it for faster rock riffs. I use the 5-string at church, where a lot of the music is slower - at least the bass line - and I play along with a piano. Piano stays out of the lower register and I pound a lot of those Cs and Ds in the B-string.
Plus, at church we have an 18” sub-woofer that helps it stand out. I find myself more and more going higher on the B-string instead of changing to the E-string. It works for me on certain songs, so I’m fairly certain it will work for you - on certain songs. Like many others have said: Do what feels and sounds right to You. Good Luck!

 

[StebonPlezon]

One other possibility of mudiness could be the result of a technique issue. 5 strings demand developing a really good muting of the B string when playing the other 4. Isolate the bass track and listen closely for unwanted/undesirable sounds that will no doubt muddy things up. If your technique is truly crisp then move on to the assortment of ideas posted above.

 

[Rebecca7]

I love my 5 string F bass but really dont use the B string too much if at all!

 

[Chad T]

I've only been playing bass for 3 years or so and play mostly P&W/church stuff. And I only play 5 strings, but my first year was on a 4 string. I still considering myself in learning stage, so I learn lots of songs note-for-note. What I found out is that a surprising number of popular songs make use of those low notes. So I listen and learn and try to choose wisely/musically. And I've got to the point where I add them occasionally when the original version doesn't have it. Other times, what works on the recording doesn't always translate live and I may use a different octave.

I make use of all 5 low notes as needed. My favorite spots are when the bass first comes into a song after sitting out the first couple lines, maybe during a quiet bridge, maybe at the climax of a song, love them for the last note of a song.....but what works or not just depends on the song. Do it enough and you'll get a feel for itt. I'm a pick player and don't have any problems with clarity or cutting through on any of the strings.

One specific example, last time I played we did Your Love Awakens Me. I didn't use any of those 5 low notes for the entire song. Until the final note. I let the low B ring wide open on the outro "1". Worked great. And I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen on the actual song.

 

[retslock]

To be fair, I play almost entirely on a fiver and that's how it gets used mostly. However, it lets me play the E string faster, and gives more thump to each note on said E string.

I used to play a Fender Precision 5 string and it didn’t sound so good below E. I sold it. I now have a custom built 5 string and an Ibanez SR655. Both sound great all the way down to B. The music and your ears should tell you how you use the notes. I personally like the fatness of the E on the 5th fret rather than the open sound. I also play quite a bit with a big band and a lot of their music is arranged for horns - Eb gets used quite a bit. My wife writes in B or Bm a fair bit too, so the B gets used occasionally. Those very low notes can be a really good pedal sound while the changes move over top. Use them as the music suggests. It’s just another sound in your palette. Tuba players don’t seem to have this “should I or shouldn’t I?” issue.