Using a fuzz pedal live

[Holy War]

I swear guys, this is my last fuzz question.

Anyways, as most of you know Im looking for some new fuzz stomp boxes. Ive been using my amps overdrive to obtain distortion and grind, but want to start using some fuzzs.

Anyways, to my question/concern. Ive been told by a lot of people that using a 100% wet fuzz tone has a fairly strong tendancy to get lost in a heavy mix (which I am playing in) due to a lack of lows and low mids. I was also told, to help combat this, that mixing in my dry clean signal will greatly help my bass tone to cut through. Specifically, someone mentioned to my the boss LS-2 to help achieve this. Is there any truth to this at all?

The fuzzes Im looking at purchasing at the moment are the Supercollider and Bass Big Muff (and blue beard if i can get my hands on one).

Anyways, any advise or experience on that matter would be appreciated

 

[eyeballkid]

yeah that could do it.. there are alot of pedals that could.. like the zen blender or alot of other looper pedals.. "looper" as in they create an effects loop in you pedal board.. not "looper" as in you can use them to create musical loops that repeat.... and alot of em are more simple than the boss and have a volume knob that you can blend in the amount of return from the pedals in the loop to the dry signal... its cool.. but dude the Bass big muff does this and im happy as hell with it. good luck on the bluebeard!.. ps.. check out the SuperMassive Black hole... its a bass muff that keeps a good bit of low end..

 

[Deluge Of Sound]

Well the Supercollider and the BBM won't get lost in the mix easily--they're both updates on the classic Muff circuit, which has a mid scoop that tends to lead to getting lost in the mix.

If you were looking at one of the original muffs (or the new variants, like the Black Russian, the NYC, etc.), then an LS-2 would make them more useful, but with the two you're looking at I don't think it would be necessary.

 

[Ziltoid]

Get both, return the looser?

 

[Holy War]

yeah that could do it.. there are alot of pedals that could.. like the zen blender or alot of other looper pedals.. "looper" as in they create an effects loop in you pedal board.. not "looper" as in you can use them to create musical loops that repeat.... and alot of em are more simple than the boss and have a volume knob that you can blend in the amount of return from the pedals in the loop to the dry signal... its cool.. but dude the Bass big muff does this and im happy as hell with it. good luck on the bluebeard!.. ps.. check out the SuperMassive Black hole... its a bass muff that keeps a good bit of low end..

Well the Supercollider and the BBM won't get lost in the mix easily--they're both updates on the classic Muff circuit, which has a mid scoop that tends to lead to getting lost in the mix.

If you were looking at one of the original muffs (or the new variants, like the Black Russian, the NYC, etc.), then an LS-2 would make them more useful, but with the two you're looking at I don't think it would be necessary.

awesome guys, thanks for the info, makes me feel a lot more confident about buying these pedals.

Also, about the blue beard, one of my very good friends lives in Baltimore and is actually friends with the guy. My friend called him up today and told me he could get me one and just about a moments notice. I have yet to take the plunge yet though

 

[Smallequestrian]

The Bass Big Muff has the ability to add in a clean signal, so wouldn't have to worry about that. Really the best way is to try this stuff out with your band. How much tweaking you have to do to get a good fuzz tone has as much to do with your rig, your guitarists rigs, the type of music you play as which fuzz you use.

 

[Holy War]

The Bass Big Muff has the ability to add in a clean signal, so wouldn't have to worry about that. Really the best way is to try this stuff out with your band. How much tweaking you have to do to get a good fuzz tone has as much to do with your rig, your guitarists rigs, the type of music you play as which fuzz you use.

I know, its just tough dropping $150 every other week on a fuzz to get the right tone. Its not like I can go out and borrow/demo one.

 

[CapnSev]

Bass big muff.

The bass boost and "dry" modes will not get lost in the mix, I promise.

 

[Pitbull Growl]

I dunno what amp you're using (too lazy to look it up in your profile... sue me) but what I like to do is run both channels on my amp (Mesa 400+).
I'll run an unaffected clean sound into one channel, then run effects into the other. This method sounds sweet w/my green Sovtek Muff

Lately my dirty sound consists of an Animato & a ValveDrive run in parallel in a psuedo-biamped set up. (VD EQ'ed for treb cut and slight bass boost, Animato set to treb boost or as I like to call it "All Your Bass R Belong To Us" mode) and it gets a very mix friendly sound to it... but I wouldn't recommend that method to anyone cuz spending roughly $500 on 2 dirt pedals is borderline ********.... but DAYUMN it sounds GOOD!!

I'd think you'd be fine w/the SuperCollider MK 2 (I have the dual oscillating one on order myself) since it has the Mids knob. Just remember the golden rule of bass effects... What sounds KILLER solo will prolly disappear in the mix, so it's best to dial it in while jamming some other music in the background to make sure you stand out in the sonic landscape. (I think it's because our ears/minds try to turn our bass tones into Bass + Guitar... same as guitarists using too much lows in their mix when they dial their tones in solo)

Anyway... HTH and good luck in your tone quest.

 

[jimmy rocket]

I use a green russian muff clone and a messdrive live. I have to run the muff in a blend loop but the Messdrive actually adds lows and increases my presence in the mix.

 

[Holy War]

Bass big muff.

The bass boost and "dry" modes will not get lost in the mix, I promise.

what kind of music do you play?

 

[Holy War]

I dunno what amp you're using (too lazy to look it up in your profile... sue me) but what I like to do is run both channels on my amp (Mesa 400+).
I'll run an unaffected clean sound into one channel, then run effects into the other. This method sounds sweet w/my green Sovtek Muff

Lately my dirty sound consists of an Animato & a ValveDrive run in parallel in a psuedo-biamped set up. (VD EQ'ed for treb cut and slight bass boost, Animato set to treb boost or as I like to call it "All Your Bass R Belong To Us" mode) and it gets a very mix friendly sound to it... but I wouldn't recommend that method to anyone cuz spending roughly $500 on 2 dirt pedals is borderline ********.... but DAYUMN it sounds GOOD!!

I'd think you'd be fine w/the SuperCollider MK 2 (I have the dual oscillating one on order myself) since it has the Mids knob. Just remember the golden rule of bass effects... What sounds KILLER solo will prolly disappear in the mix, so it's best to dial it in while jamming some other music in the background to make sure you stand out in the sonic landscape. (I think it's because our ears/minds try to turn our bass tones into Bass + Guitar... same as guitarists using too much lows in their mix when they dial their tones in solo)

Anyway... HTH and good luck in your tone quest.

Im running a Mesa BB750 into a Mesa powerhouse RR 1000 cab and Mesa RR 4x10

 

[Pitbull Growl]

Hmm.... I dunno if the BB can drive both inputs simultaniously so I hesitate to recommend it for ya.

That being said, I bet that rig SLAYS!!

 

[rratajski]

Some things need to be clarified about the Blue Beard and the Supercollider...
The Bluebeard is a slight/negligible variation of the GGG-tuned BMP (search it). As you roll up the tone, you will lose (not loose) a bit of the lows and there is a mid scoop (no more than the GGG-tuned).
The Supercollider is muff-based, therefore there is a loss of mids. The mids knob doesn't really retain any more mids than most other muffs, it just allows you to control the amount of the scoop (more or less). The mids are still scooped. You get the ability of having some more tweakability.

A blend will help any of the muff-based fuzzes stand out a bit more, but the fuzz side of things will still get buried in the high gain g****r mix. Period.

 

[Holy War]

Some things need to be clarified about the Blue Beard and the Supercollider...
The Bluebeard is a slight/negligible variation of the GGG-tuned BMP (search it). As you roll up the tone, you will lose (not loose) a bit of the lows and there is a mid scoop (no more than the GGG-tuned).
The Supercollider is muff-based, therefore there is a loss of mids. The mids knob doesn't really retain any more mids than most other muffs, it just allows you to control the amount of the scoop (more or less). The mids are still scooped. You get the ability of having some more tweakability.

A blend will help any of the muff-based fuzzes stand out a bit more, but the fuzz side of things will still get buried in the high gain g****r mix. Period.

by that logic, whats the point of even having a fuzz? Serious question.

I mean guys like Tas from Electric Wizard, who tunes down to B, has to compete with two guitars, uses a fuzz, and still gets through. Whats the secret?

 

[Pitbull Growl]

Serious answer:

Like any effect it's all about what the song calls for.... sometimes that WALL OF FUZZ/syncopated riffs really drive the living hell outta the song. Remember, the audience is there to see your band as a whole... not just the bass player (for the most part).

 

[Jared Lash]

Some things about fuzzes.

They degrade your signal by clipping it and there's no way to get around that fact. A fuzzed out bass sound will never "cut through" or make you "more present" in the mix. That's not to say you can't have a VERY obvious buzzy, fuzzed out bass tone, but you are sacrificing low end clarity and depth to get it.

A clean blend minimizes some loss. Setting your fuzz tone well above unity helps too. What seems like a too loud fuzz at home (relative to my clean tone) works much better at a gig than trying to match my clean and fuzz volumes.

As far as playing with a band, I don't use fuzz (or distortion) when the guitars are dirty. To me it's easiest to have clean bass and dirty guitars or relatively clean guitars and dirty bass.

Can both be distorted/fuzzed out and still work well? Sure, in one of two scenarios.

1) You are playing sludge, doom etc where it is a slow, unison pounding and the bass being distinct from the guitars isn't only not needed, but unwanted.

2) Care is taken to slot each instrument in the mix. Check out King's X as a band that did dirty bass and guitars together VERY well. The problem is that a vast majority of bands don't want to do this. It's much easier to just have the bass be clean. Also, far from all but many guitar players don't want to adjust their dirty tone for the band. They want to take their bedroom tone and use it no matter what. Many bassists fall victim to this too. The final product should be all that matters, but far too many bands don't seem to understand that point.

 

[rratajski]

Also, far from all but many guitar players don't want to adjust their dirty tone for the band. They want to take their bedroom tone and use it no matter what. Many bassists fall victim to this too. The final product should be all that matters, but far too many bands don't seem to understand that point.

Ohhhh, the bedroom tone...hahaha.

Great points made!

 

[Holy War]

Some things about fuzzes.

They degrade your signal by clipping it and there's no way to get around that fact. A fuzzed out bass sound will never "cut through" or make you "more present" in the mix. That's not to say you can't have a VERY obvious buzzy, fuzzed out bass tone, but you are sacrificing low end clarity and depth to get it.

A clean blend minimizes some loss. Setting your fuzz tone well above unity helps too. What seems like a too loud fuzz at home (relative to my clean tone) works much better at a gig than trying to match my clean and fuzz volumes.

As far as playing with a band, I don't use fuzz (or distortion) when the guitars are dirty. To me it's easiest to have clean bass and dirty guitars or relatively clean guitars and dirty bass.

Can both be distorted/fuzzed out and still work well? Sure, in one of two scenarios.

1) You are playing sludge, doom etc where it is a slow, unison pounding and the bass being distinct from the guitars isn't only not needed, but unwanted.

2) Care is taken to slot each instrument in the mix. Check out King's X as a band that did dirty bass and guitars together VERY well. The problem is that a vast majority of bands don't want to do this. It's much easier to just have the bass be clean. Also, far from all but many guitar players don't want to adjust their dirty tone for the band. They want to take their bedroom tone and use it no matter what. Many bassists fall victim to this too. The final product should be all that matters, but far too many bands don't seem to understand that point.

thanks for the insight. Makes sence

 

[Thunderscreech]

1) You are playing sludge, doom etc where it is a slow, unison pounding and the bass being distinct from the guitars isn't only not needed, but unwanted.

Also, if you want something dirty, look at the Sparkle Drive. I know it's not a fuzz, but you seem to be playing an amp with lots of distortion already built it. The Spartkle Drive has a clean blend, and sounds pretty awesome from what I hear. Snakeman 1066 uses it on his rig, but he's running 2 channels (clean and dirty). He posted clips of his sound in a band setting in a thread, but I can't find it.

I should probably mention that the Sparkle Drive is an OD pedal based off of the Tubescreamer.