Using Effects Pedals with a DI

[JimmyM]

I dealt with this on my last gig, the soundman INSISTED i give him a clean signal along with a DI effects signal. I get it, but he never muted my clean signal... You cant do that if you use synthy octave effects and thats the sound your trying to achieve. Im still pretty pissed lol. I was adamant about micing my bass cab (fender super bassman 300 with a d112) but he said there was no lowend.. It seems like a struggle most of us go through, as much experience as our soundmen has he doesnt seem to hear my vision, i want somebody thatll hear what im trying to do.

Ya, just because they own a board and some amps and cabs doesn't make them soundmen. The best sound techs I ever worked with leave me to my own devices and deal with what I do as it comes. Once in a while they might have asked me to change my EQ to suit the room when I was micing, but rarely. But one thing they can complain about till they're blue in the face and I will never listen to them is my effects being inline with my DI. That's crossing a line.

 

[FretNoMore]

First thing I do if we play a venue with a house PA and their own sound guy is introduce myself, chat a bit if it looks like he has the time for it. Then I load the question about the bass sound by saying "this is how I usually do it, that OK with you?", and it always is. Act like you know what you are doing (you do) and people will accept it more often than not. Age and grey hair probably helps too.

 

[mc900ftj]

First thing I do if we play a venue with a house PA and their own sound guy is introduce myself, chat a bit if it looks like he has the time for it. Then I load the question about the bass sound by saying "this is how I usually do it, that OK with you?", and it always is. Act like you know what you are doing (you do) and people will accept it more often than not. Age and grey hair probably helps too.

This.

 

[hintz]

Ya, just because they own a board and some amps and cabs doesn't make them soundmen. The best sound techs I ever worked with leave me to my own devices and deal with what I do as it comes. Once in a while they might have asked me to change my EQ to suit the room when I was micing, but rarely. But one thing they can complain about till they're blue in the face and I will never listen to them is my effects being inline with my DI. That's crossing a line.

This is sadly very true...i played in a wedding band for a few years and the ahem, "soundguy" was the singers brother in law who knew nothing about sound, but he had a decent setup(not that this matters in the hands of the unskilled), he also setup all the PA, so it was a win for the singer...

Anyways, the bass always sounded like hip hop bass on EVERYTHING, oldies, 70-90's variety music, no definition or midrange, just sub lows and he always insisted on pre-eq XLR, he'd give me the whole line about "bass should be felt, not heard"....

Anyways, if I didn't have decent stage volume I couldn't play well because of his mix, I ended up quitting when the pay never went up.....


Now i wouldnt put up with that crap!! I also worked with great soundguys willing to work with ya so its hit or miss, get a good preamp/DI pedal to run after FX, I use the B7K nowadays but plenty of other good ones now as well, that ampeg DI looks pretty cool...

 

[monsterthompson]

This is sadly very true...i played in a wedding band for a few years and the ahem, "soundguy" was the singers brother in law who knew nothing about sound, but he had a decent setup(not that this matters in the hands of the unskilled), he also setup all the PA, so it was a win for the singer...

Anyways, the bass always sounded like hip hop bass on EVERYTHING, oldies, 70-90's variety music, no definition or midrange, just sub lows and he always insisted on pre-eq XLR, he'd give me the whole line about "bass should be felt, not heard"....

Anyways, if I didn't have decent stage volume I couldn't play well because of his mix, I ended up quitting when the pay never went up.....


Now i wouldnt put up with that crap!! I also worked with great soundguys willing to work with ya so its hit or miss, get a good preamp/DI pedal to run after FX, I use the B7K nowadays but plenty of other good ones now as well, that ampeg DI looks pretty cool...

a buddy of mine just snagged one of the Ampeg DI units. hasn't played much, so i can't speak for it. i'm not an Ampeg fan, but it looks good.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

My regular church gig has me running direct. I use either a Radial JDI which sounds great and takes effects rather well, or the Rupert Neve Designs DI which sound fantastic.
The rub here is that i spent a LOT of time and money finding effects that sound good run direct. For my overdrive, i found Catalinbread's WIIO pedal, which is a HiWatt sim works wonders. Sounds awesome direct. Very transparent but it pushes back like a tube amp should.
Also works wonderously in front of an amp.
Good luck!

 

[fasto]

If you want FOH to have your effects, put them before the DI. If you prefer a 'dry' signal to FOH, put your effects after your DI.

^ i read this a lot (sending only the clean signal to the FOH) and will never understand ... effects are part of my sound.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, I didn't buy all these effects and spend all this time learning their sweet spots to have the audience not be able to hear them.

 

[blindrabbit]

First thing I do if we play a venue with a house PA and their own sound guy is introduce myself, chat a bit if it looks like he has the time for it. Then I load the question about the bass sound by saying "this is how I usually do it, that OK with you?", and it always is. Act like you know what you are doing (you do) and people will accept it more often than not. Age and grey hair probably helps too.

Yeah, excellent point.

I send a DI from my Aguilar Tone Hammer head, and because I roll in a little "drive", it gives a gentle rolloff of the highs that serves as a type of speaker emulation. I've never had anything but positive comments about my tone when done this way.

 

[hintz]

Unfortunately alot of "sound guys" just wont have it, I played a gig a few months back where the venue had a complete backline including electronic drums, BL failed to inform me this so I brought my rig with, get there and the soundguy was slightly freaking out on me cuz there wasn't even room IN THE. CLUB for my amp, I asked if I could at least use my head, he made a big deal about it so I stashed it next to the front door ( there was no where else for it,I had to park 4 blocks away and had 30 minutes before go time, so no time to pack it up), he says, "I hope to god nobody in a wheelchair comes in here", now I feel like a douche, anyways I played through his SWR head which sounded very dry/sterile, it went well, as soon as I was done I packed up and left....

I wasn't happy with any of this, the poor drummer played on this akwardly set up electronic kit which was difficult, etc, etc.... Anyways some guys are terribly stubborn and *will not* accommodate you as a bassist, if BL asks me to play there again I will refuse(this band doesn't pay $$ anyways)

 

[JimmyM]

Yep, I'd blow it off, too, especially if the money's not worth the aggravation. Might show up a little sooner than half hour before start but if the money's not great, it doesn't inspire anyone to do a ton of advance work, so I get it.

 

[hintz]

Yep, I'd blow it off, too, especially if the money's not worth the aggravation. Might show up a little sooner than half hour before start but if the money's not great, it doesn't inspire anyone to do a ton of advance work, so I get it.

I intended on being an hour and a half early, but it was downtown Honolulu, club at a busy intersection, etc, etc...so it was more important to find parking as club had no place to load in, I carried my bass, cab and head(left pedal board in trunk) the 4 blocks cutting through alleys to get there, not a fun load in

Oh yeah, this is my "fun gig", I make no money, in fact the BL wanted me to help pay rent for rehearsal space which I can't afford, I told him to get someone else, they like my playing so I just don't pay

 

[hintz]

To OP, if you get a chance play your pedals through IEM's its *very* different than through your amp, or run an XLR from your amp to in ears, you can really hear the volume differences of pedals and adjust accordingly, this is why I think alot of soundguys just wont have it, even if the player did their homework with keeping everything at unity gain...

Currently I only use my B7K(removed from my board) for my main gig as we do a majority of gigs outside(it rains here alot), and I run a 2/10 for a little "feel" , I save my pedals for indoor gigs only now and always make sure all my cables are good, and I unplug everything monthly to let stuff air out, I also de-oxit every jack I have just a little to prevent mold(very common here)

 

[Session1969]

I send one signal to the house from my DI but I use a boss line splitter pedal and blend a dry signal into my wet signal. i believe it helps keep the integrity of the bass, especially when the band is playing. Plus, it makes having pedals a little easier for me because I can have multiple pedals come on simultainiously and then be able to switch to just dry with one push to the pedal.

 

[McMillions]

In my band I run a pre/post/mic setup. I have a radial at the beginning of my board then out of my board goes to an avalon (with the hi cut on) then I mic my 810. Gives my front of house guy a lot of options for handling the effected/dry signal. I trust our FOH guy to do his job and he is extremely responsive to my input. We try to work as a team to make sure it sounds good. As for when I'm out with other bands with less then experienced sound guys. I try to mic if I'm too worried and if they are really not good I figure a bad bass tone out front is the least of the bands worries.