using parallel modes question

[ics1974]

When can you use the parallel modes in a chord progression?
Say the chord progression is diatonic.
Key of C
V–vi–IV–I : G–Am–F–C

Instead of using the proper modes for the key like G mixolydian over the G chord can you use a parallel mode like G ionian or G lydian to get a different feel? Same with the other chords. Instead of using A aeolian over the Am chord could you choose to use A dorian instead?
Just trying to figure out when can you using the parallel modes.

 

[Malcolm35]

When can you use the parallel modes in a chord progression?
Say the chord progression is diatonic. Key of C -- V–vi–IV–I : G–Am–F–C
Instead of using the proper modes for the key like G mixolydian over the G chord can you use a parallel mode like G ionian or G lydian to get a different feel? Same with the other chords. Instead of using A aeolian over the Am chord could you choose to use A dorian instead?
Just trying to figure out when can you using the parallel modes.

OK here goes... there is tonal, then there is modal. As long as you are using a chord progression as your harmony and resolving to 1 you are playing tonal and your modal notes will probably not cut through the resolution to let the modal sound develop. Your modal notes are little more than another scale. That will take some getting used to so hang in and keep reading.

Playing modal we do not use a chord progression. There is no resolution in modal. The mode is to drone on and let the modal sound develop. To do this we use a modal vamp of one to two chords. One of the chords would be the name of the key ( C Dorian would use a C chord) and the second chord would contain the signature note of Dorian, which would be the natural 6 note. This natural 6 note droning on let's the Doran sound develop.

So - when can you use a parallel mode in a chord progression? Any time, but remember a V-I progression will not let the Dorian sound (mood) cut through the resolution. You are just playing Dorian's notes the same way as another scale.

This is going to take a while to sink in, so do a Google on Modal vamp harmony.

Good luck.

 

[JTE]

If it's a diatonic progression the scale that all the chords come from is the base. Under the Amin the main notes are the chord tones A, C, E. Do do you use For F# for other notes? Well, F# is in the patent key, do it's going to be safer than F natural. But it depends on where you put that note rhythmically and what notes precede it and follow it, how the line supports AND defines the harmony.

Me, I find thinking modally for diatonic progression to be a distracting mental exercise that obfuscates the fact that all the chords are in the same diatonic major scale. And more importantly, all related to each other as a progression to be dealt with as a whole, not four separate entities that are independent.

 

[Papageno]

When can you use the parallel modes in a chord progression?
Say the chord progression is diatonic.
Key of C
V–vi–IV–I : G–Am–F–C

Instead of using the proper modes for the key like G mixolydian over the G chord can you use a parallel mode like G ionian or G lydian to get a different feel? Same with the other chords. Instead of using A aeolian over the Am chord could you choose to use A dorian instead?
Just trying to figure out when can you using the parallel modes.

No, it won't work. G ionian and lydian contain an F#, i.e. the major 7th. On the V chord, you need the minor 7th (F); if you play G lydian or G ionian instead, it will sound like you have modulated to some othet key (G major or D major), and you arrive on the F major chord, this will sound very sour.

 

[Snarf]

What style of music? That's going to have a lot of impact on your choices.

 

[mambo4]

Just trying to figure out when can you using the parallel modes.

The most true but least helpful answer is : when it sounds good
Try it an use your ears.

You can google "scale syllabus" for plenty of charts of "chord X implies scales Y and Z"
The basic theory of such charts is simple: if a scale contains all of the chord tones, it might sound good with the chord.
But as others are saying , jumping from scale to scale with each new chord is usually not the best approach.
Beyond the root notes, the style of music has at least as much influence on note choice as any theory.

 

[Malcolm35]

• Mombo brings up a good point, jumping from one chord with Dorian, then another chord with Mixolydian is not the best way to go. Why not? Well Dorian gives an attractive minor mood and Mixolydian gives a major mood, I hear Latin. Does the song change moods? Probably not. With modes - pick one mode (mood) and play that over the entire piece. Remember you have switched from tonal to modal vamp and that vamp is droning the modes mood for you to play over.

 

[Pacman]

• Mombo brings up a good point, jumping from one chord with Dorian, then another chord with Mixolydian is not the best way to go. Why not? Well Dorian gives an attractive minor mood and Mixolydian gives a major mood, I hear Latin. Does the song change moods? Probably not. With modes - pick one mode (mood) and play that over the entire piece. Remember you have switched from tonal to modal vamp and that vamp is droning the modes mood for you to play over.

This is not the case at all.

 

[ics1974]

What style of music? That's going to have a lot of impact on your choices.

no style in particular just a theory question

 

[ics1974]

• Mombo brings up a good point, jumping from one chord with Dorian, then another chord with Mixolydian is not the best way to go. Why not? Well Dorian gives an attractive minor mood and Mixolydian gives a major mood, I hear Latin. Does the song change moods? Probably not. With modes - pick one mode (mood) and play that over the entire piece. Remember you have switched from tonal to modal vamp and that vamp is droning the modes mood for you to play over.

From what I have learned modes are not just used to create a mood like you are talking about. Yes that works when a drone chord or tone is being played but modes go beyond that.

 

[Snarf]

^^ Modes are essentially redundant. You'll get everything you need from the major, harmonic minor, and melodic minor scales. If you're yazzing up a storm, throw in some diminished and augmented mumbojumbo. Rather than becoming mode-obsessed, I suggest learning all the chords and arpeggios derived from the above scales (if you just can't yazz enough).

 

[Malcolm35]

From what I have learned modes are not just used to create a mood like you are talking about. Yes that works when a drone chord or tone is being played but modes go beyond that.

Not trying to take anyone to task, but, would really like to know what you have in mind about modes going beyond moods. A little more of how do we use them beyond setting a mood.

What do modes accomplish?

 

[ics1974]

^^ Modes are essentially redundant. You'll get everything you need from the major, harmonic minor, and melodic minor scales. If you're yazzing up a storm, throw in some diminished and augmented mumbojumbo. Rather than becoming mode-obsessed, I suggest learning all the chords and arpeggios derived from the above scales (if you just can't yazz enough).

when I started learning bass I took that advice and learned the major scale and chord tones. It wasn’t until I learned the modes that I kno

Not trying to take anyone to task, but, would really like to know what you have in mind about modes going beyond moods. A little more of how do we use them beyond setting a mood.

What do modes accomplish?

You can use modes for fills over a specific chord. Say you are in the key of C and want to create a fill over any of the chords in that key you could choose the mode that fits the chord. example over a V chord you could create a fill using G mixolydian.

 

[Malcolm35]

Yes I understand using the modal notes as a fill, or can we say as you would when using a pentatonic scale. Match the pentatonic to the chord.

I'm at ease with as a fill.