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Double Bass VARNISH MATTERS

#62
kurt muroki said:
I have a violin maker friend who has very nice varnish who told me that his secret was using ground ancient amber. Probably too expensive I bet. Oh he doesnt mind that I share this.
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It's not really a secret in the violin world. Many a violin maker has set his shop on fire while trying to cook up a batch of fused amber varnish. I knew one master violoin maker who had a friend in the jewelry manufacturing business. He would get the bits and pieces of amber that were scrap from the manufacturing and would fuse and cook up small batches of amber varnish for sale to other makers. It does make a beautiful varnish, but the cost to cover a bass would be hard to justify.
 
#63
At this point, some of the more esoteric varnishes seem a little overkill for something the size of a bass, although I do find it all fascinating.

For what it's worth, I've left varnish samples outside in the sun with an aluminum foil stripe taped down the middlesince my original post, and more than a week of intense Colorado sun plus a couple nights of frost later, there's no fading or cracking whatsoever. I know that this doesn't mean I won't have problems down the road, but to me it's encouraging.
 
#64
ah interesting, see I always learn something new here... I guess my friend was trying to sound cooler than he was haha. anyway I wonder how much amber would be needed to do a bass??? If I start collecting amber now maybe I'd have enough by the time I retire to varnish a bass.

Bob Branstetter said:
It's not really a secret in the violin world. Many a violin maker has set his shop on fire while trying to cook up a batch of fused amber varnish. I knew one master violoin maker who had a friend in the jewelry manufacturing business. He would get the bits and pieces of amber that were scrap from the manufacturing and would fuse and cook up small batches of amber varnish for sale to other makers. It does make a beautiful varnish, but the cost to cover a bass would be hard to justify.
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#65
Has anyone tried the alkyd gel varnishes?

I've seen some instruments that I think were varnished with these. Minwax makes a brand as well as some others. They have a clear and then different colors. I believe you can mix artists oils with them because artists use them to speed up drying time.

Anyway it may be a solution for those who want an "easy" method?
 
#66
I first became interested in varnish in the mid 70s. I don't know how many times I have read of someone stating with certainty that they had the "secret" varnish or ground, colors, you name it.

Here's a new thread from Maestronet that will be of interest to anyone who is interested in varnish.

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It's called: What? Stradivari's Varnish Hasn't Been Analyzed?
 
#67
Great thread everyone has going . I'll add a bit more to the mix. About six months ago the folks at Fine Woodworking came by for a visit and we shot a video on handrubbing sunburst finishes. You can find it here:

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or go to www.finewoodworking.com, click techniques , finishing, colored wood and plug sunburst finish into the search engine.

The video goes beyond what most folks would use for color on a bass, but it also shows that you can get incredible color results with simple hand techniques, aniline dyes, and shellac. Good luck.

j.
www.condino.com
 
#73
Matthew Tucker said:
Olivia desperately wants a luminous green bass and I'm determined to deliver! ... It's still a work in progress but as you can see, the client is already happy. I have found the lemon-yellow oilpaint under the shellac reflects the light marvellously through the clear finish, in a way that just varnish over wood doesn't. Without that "ground" coat, the bass would look like it was made of treated pine ...
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My goodness that's gorgeous...!
 
#74
I know this is an older thread, but I just wanted to see if I could get some advice on coloring... I am in the process of finishing a Christopher Flatback using Waterlox, and I was wondering what oil colors I should use to get a darker blonde finish? Here is an example of what I am thinking:
 
#75
This is sort of like our ever-present "get a teacher" advice, and I'm not even directly answering your question, so I hope I don't offend, Adrian. Not my intent at all. But: one of many things I've learned the hard way in several decades of hobbyist woodworking is always to do a bunch of testing when I'm working with woods and finishes that are new to me. No matter what somebody tells you here (and BTW, I think somewhere in the back files are some tips Arnold has on using oil paints for tinting, but that's another thing I'm sure you already know), check it out for yourself first.

Then show us what you did 'cause one day when I'm finally done with this ****ing old house of mine, I'm gonna do just about the same thing to my Chrissie. Good on ya for taking it on (or off, as the case may be with the old Chrissie straightjacket finish.)
 
#76
Adrian Juras said:
I know this is an older thread, but I just wanted to see if I could get some advice on coloring... I am in the process of finishing a Christopher Flatback using Waterlox, and I was wondering what oil colors I should use to get a darker blonde finish? Here is an example of what I am thinking:
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You want to go to the color in the photo, right? What's it look like now?
Some of the Christopher basses are about that color. If it's dark look carefully at the wood under the varnish. Is it dark? They might have stained it which may mean that you are not going to be able to get a light amber color like that in the photo without sanding through the stain which will change the sound of your bass for one thing. Also, you may devalue the bass by half.
Christopher used to use a lacquer and I think they still do on their cheaper basses, but some of their higher level basses have nice oil varnishes and I've seen some with a very good seedlac.
Things to think about.
 
#77
Oh I completely realise that experimentation on scrap would be effective, I just wanted to get a general idea so I don't spend too much on oil colors. This particularly Christopher doesn't have that thick laquer finish on it. It has a VERY thin spirit varnish that chips so easily that I can practically run my nail over it and it chips and flakes away. It is extremely easy to strip with a scraper and light pressure. The wood isn't stained under the current varnish. I bought the bass for a ridiculously low price so that is also not a concern. Here is a picture of what it looks like right now(keeping in mind this is an older pic and it is a lot more chipped up especially around the edges now):
 
#78
Other variation used by G.A. Alvarelli of the formula 1704 : Seed Lac = 35 grs., Sandrac = 10 grs., Mastic = 5 grs., Propolis = 5 grs., Lavanda oil = 10 ml., Alcohol (denaturated) = 200 ml., mix for several days, take 10 grs., of Elemy, heat till melt to liquid, and pour it hot to the previous warm mixture . Add lake color to taste .
 
#79
Adrian Juras said:
Oh I completely realise that experimentation on scrap would be effective, I just wanted to get a general idea so I don't spend too much on oil colors. This particularly Christopher doesn't have that thick laquer finish on it. It has a VERY thin spirit varnish that chips so easily that I can practically run my nail over it and it chips and flakes away. It is extremely easy to strip with a scraper and light pressure. The wood isn't stained under the current varnish. I bought the bass for a ridiculously low price so that is also not a concern. Here is a picture of what it looks like right now(keeping in mind this is an older pic and it is a lot more chipped up especially around the edges now):
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Adrian, resist the urge to scrape off the existing finish. Use a chemical stripper like Citrustrip, which isn't so toxic. I think the ground color you are looking for is a yellow ochre. If I were doing this job, I would first raise the wood grain (after smoothing the surfaces) with clean water, lightly sand when dry with a very fine paper, and scrape the spruce top, if you're looking for a traditional textured finish. Then I would get a nice yellow ochre water color, and mix up a medium-strong solution to use as a wash coat/ ground color. Apply with a sponge or foam brush, working fast! When dry, don't sand this! Just start building with your varnish, which will turn the yellow base a golden brown. After a couple coats you can lightly sand off the fuzz. If you need more color, add a little Van Dyke brown to your varnish, or glaze with it, thinned in Liquin and mineral spirits. Finish up with 4-5 coats of clear. Waterlox is quite thin, so wiping is the way to go. If you do a great job rubbing down between final coats, you can sort of French-polish the last coat on, eliminating the need for rubbing out. that's only if you want it glossy, though. Good luck!
 

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