Okay, I don't mean to be condescending but I am genuinly wondering now, is 145$ a good pay for you? That drifts into a completly different topic now, but is that normal for you guys? Did you only play for a short set? 145$ wouldn't be a reason for me to pack my gear and go to a show. Hell, with the amount of gas I use up and the amount of physical labor to set everything up and all, that seems like a horrible deal to me...
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Venue "forgot" to comp our food
- Thread starter hrodbert696
- Start date
Walking out with $105 in my pocket would be a good night. Of course, I gig for fun and not for dough.
I'd be inclined to cut the venue a break this time. They are just open and probably working out a lot of kinks. Next time you're there, just ask for a clarification on the comp policy at the start of the night.
I'd be inclined to cut the venue a break this time. They are just open and probably working out a lot of kinks. Next time you're there, just ask for a clarification on the comp policy at the start of the night.
I dont get why you didnt bring it up to the server or management at the time. It was most likely just a lack of communication with the severs. Bringing it up at the time probably would have been an easy fix. It doesnt seem fair to the venue to make it a malicious event if you didnt bring it up at the time.
Exactly my thoughts. Signed contracts...clear wording...no sig...no gig. 50% deposits are wise too.
IDK, I just would have not payed the tab, would have produced the evidence of the food being part of the compensation (always get these details in writing). I would have left a tip for the service of the comp'd food because regardless of the food being comp'd I believe in tipping the bar/servers. In your case I would contact the person who hired you and made that offer and ask for compensation
"There was a tip box at the door..."
If you have a tip jar, put it on the stage in front of you.
Welcome to the economics of weekend-warrior bar bands in America. Most groups I've played in I take home $100 a gig, this one mostly runs $125-150. Not relying on this to pay bills.
It was a band tab that I assumed was all comped. The singer had already paid it and the place was pretty much shut down at that point. So refusing to pay would have been to stick her with the bill and put her in a position of raising a fuss with the place, which like I said I didn't want to do until I'd gotten feedback about it.
Stuff happens. Have your LS talk with the manager and ask what's up. If the place is legit, they'll make it up to you in some way. IF not, you know to not play there again because their word is bogus. I don't think it's uncommon to get different information form the booker than from your servers - information is not always shared in house.
I've played plenty of places with no comps a few with a little comps, and others where they are generous with food and drink. Venues that don't do this in lieu of a little pay maybe, are dumb. It costs them about $5 to provide $20 per man in comps, but it feels like full comp if I'm not digging money out of pocket. And the servers benefit (at least from me) in heavier tips.
What is worse than the venue holding out on you is when your BL doesn't even bother to tell you there are comps involved. Had this happen a few years back. Went early and had dinner (on my dime). At first break I went up to buy a beer and the bartender told me "no charge" it was on the band tab. "We have a tab?" So I got a couple of beers out of it, but a bartender who was paying less attention would have charged me because I didn't even think to ask. If I don't know what comps are available (BLs don't always ask about this or disclose to us that there are comps), I'll ask the staff if there are any comps or discounts when ordering. I never expect it (unless I know going in that they available and always appreciate a little liquid love.
I've played plenty of places with no comps a few with a little comps, and others where they are generous with food and drink. Venues that don't do this in lieu of a little pay maybe, are dumb. It costs them about $5 to provide $20 per man in comps, but it feels like full comp if I'm not digging money out of pocket. And the servers benefit (at least from me) in heavier tips.
What is worse than the venue holding out on you is when your BL doesn't even bother to tell you there are comps involved. Had this happen a few years back. Went early and had dinner (on my dime). At first break I went up to buy a beer and the bartender told me "no charge" it was on the band tab. "We have a tab?" So I got a couple of beers out of it, but a bartender who was paying less attention would have charged me because I didn't even think to ask. If I don't know what comps are available (BLs don't always ask about this or disclose to us that there are comps), I'll ask the staff if there are any comps or discounts when ordering. I never expect it (unless I know going in that they available and always appreciate a little liquid love.
Whoever booked the gig/made the deal for compensation should have handled it all (collection of payment, comps act). Was your singer not aware of the compensation arrangement? For these reason the groups I play with, the bandleader usually takes care of all of this, it very easily turns into too many cooks in the kitchen kinda thing.
I've gone BACK to a club to get paid the money I was owed and two things happened :
1. I gained his respect.
2. It never happened again. I got paid the next time.
1. I gained his respect.
2. It never happened again. I got paid the next time.
Last edited:
This would be an interesting poll. I notice you're in Germany; here in the US band pay is typically low unless you're doing very corporate-type shows, and there are some people here who do play in those bands but it's probably not most of us. It has changed a lot since the late 70's and early 1980's when I first started; band pay then was anywhere from $60 to $100 a night for me working in small clubs, and that would equate now to around $200 to $400 in today's dollars (using the value of a dollar in 1979).
But the musician's union here lost its way, clubs found out they could pay less and fill their clubs with friends and family rather than regular patrons, and so on.
Nobody in the town where I live draws anywhere close to $200 per show, unless you're playing a casino gig doing corporate top-40, and if you do that kind of work you have to travel, so you can't have a day job and make that kind of money.
Interesting to think that it might be very different in Europe. Or maybe you are one of the folks who is able to work in live music full-time?
I played a popular venue here once and had booked two bands where we just swapped out the singer, one set per band. The club screwed with our pay and only paid for one band, so I never played there again. They apparently didn't care that it was double the rehearsal time and double the practice time for everyone to learn two band's worth of repertoire.
I'm definitely not a full time working musician. I wish but I'm still a student. Which is why that pay seemed so low to me. Even I as a relatively young musician get 500€ for the sort of corporate type gigs that you mentioned and atleast 300€ for dance music and such things. And were usually 5 members. I don't know exactly how much the entire pay is, but I never really cared much about it because I don't think the bandleader is ripping me off and I'm having loads of fun! And I always get free food haha
I think you made the right choice in this situation, but only if the BL solidifies the nature of the comps before the next gig. BL really should have pushed back at the time, but it's understandable that she didn't.
It's mostly fun money, but my last weekly-gigging group was also in the $100-per-gig range. I had zero interest in giving any of that $ back to the venue so I only drank or ate there when they were comped or when BL was buying.
Last edited:
Yes, she should have. As I described, it came up after she had already paid it, been told they forgot the comp agreement, and I was on the spot to either refuse to pay and send her back to yell at them on the spot, or pay it at the moment and follow up later.
Since you're likely to be eating it cold, I recommend the clam chowder or the split pea with ham.
It doesn't have to be that formal. Just an email or text between the BL and club owner clarifying what and how much will be comped, and shared with the other band members. That way everyone has it on their phone, so if there's a question between any band member and any member of the staff, it can immediately be cleared up in a way that won't ruffle any feathers.
hi hrodbert696 
Most musicians are horrible businessmen! (Jazz musicians are the worst!)
Rule number one: Always write it down and sign it!
A handshake is a contract (by law!) ,but without witness you have no chance to enforce it!
Don't send the singer next time! (see below!)
No! you are not overreacting! A deal should be a deal!
Singers know BS about gigs (sorry singers)
They don't know anything about drums (how much space you need)
They don't know how much power outlets you need on stage...etc.
They will book your 180 dB Heavy Metal Rockshow with 5000 KW lights for a wedding gig in a double garage!
Next time!
This is it!
I have the same "agreement"! Also for over 30 years! I call it my "checklist"!
hrodbert696
Don't sell your band as weekend warriors! (it's time that you sell your band as adult musicians!)
Bar owners will always cheat when they can! It's part of the business!
The next time you want to play this gig,
show up with an "agreement" or checklist" (see above)!
Don't call it a contract. Bar owners hate contracts!
Don't send your singer! Go yourself or send the beast (drummer? just kidding)
Go through the checklist and don't mention what went wrong last time!!!
If you don't play there next week the bar owner won't remember your last gig and the non existent contract!
Start from scratch!
Write it down!
Start with the basics (lights, PA, power outlets on stage etc.)
Don't hesitate to tell him that you like his stage,light etc.
Once you get down to drinks and food
Ask for free drinks! All of them! And good catering!
This is a crucial point!
Going through the "checklist", the client has understood that you are not a teenage band!
"I once had a band that..." (blues brothers or teenage punkband) is no argument!
Push! Tell him that you come to play! (not to drink!)
And that you expect to be served good food!
Stop to sell yourselves as cheap! No adult experienced musician should do that!
As long as you stay cool and polite in your negotiacions you can get it!
Get your agreement signed! (and next time haggle even more: your price!!!)
greetings
Wise(b)ass
Most musicians are horrible businessmen! (Jazz musicians are the worst!)
Rule number one: Always write it down and sign it!
A handshake is a contract (by law!) ,but without witness you have no chance to enforce it!
Don't send the singer next time! (see below!)
No! you are not overreacting! A deal should be a deal!
Singers know BS about gigs (sorry singers)
They don't know anything about drums (how much space you need)
They don't know how much power outlets you need on stage...etc.
They will book your 180 dB Heavy Metal Rockshow with 5000 KW lights for a wedding gig in a double garage!
Next time!
This is it!
I have the same "agreement"! Also for over 30 years! I call it my "checklist"!
hrodbert696
Don't sell your band as weekend warriors! (it's time that you sell your band as adult musicians!)
Bar owners will always cheat when they can! It's part of the business!
The next time you want to play this gig,
show up with an "agreement" or checklist" (see above)!
Don't call it a contract
. Bar owners hate contracts!Don't send your singer! Go yourself or send the beast (drummer?
just kidding)Go through the checklist and don't mention what went wrong last time!!!
If you don't play there next week the bar owner won't remember your last gig and the non existent contract!
Start from scratch!
Write it down!
Start with the basics (lights, PA, power outlets on stage etc.)
Don't hesitate to tell him that you like his stage,light etc.
Once you get down to drinks and food
Ask for free drinks! All of them! And good catering!
This is a crucial point!
Going through the "checklist", the client has understood that you are not a teenage band!
"I once had a band that..." (blues brothers or teenage punkband) is no argument!
Push! Tell him that you come to play! (not to drink!)
And that you expect to be served good food!
Stop to sell yourselves as cheap! No adult experienced musician should do that!
As long as you stay cool and polite in your negotiacions you can get it!
Get your agreement signed! (and next time haggle even more: your price!!!)
greetings
Wise(b)ass
Last edited:
That's exactly what I meant! Didn't mean to imply printed docs, etc., just an email exchange to show proof of an agreement. I worked with a band for about seven years and the BL was extremely anti smart phones... until he realized that it meant being able to pull up a booking correspondence and say "yeah, you actually did promise $400 + food."
Although now I'm out of that group and he uses the phone to follow trucker convoys so all I know is that it's a wild, wild world.
Same as ahbradot, over the years I learned to eat at home before a gig and to expect zero or don't rely on anybody for a meal. I am very sorry to hear your story. The funny thing is that -at least around Detroit-, the most simple, old, obscure places treated you better with food/drinks than the well known, more expensive venues. Of course, there are always exceptions.
