Vintage 1979 Ampeg 8 x 10" speaker question thread

[mitts]

Hello there Talk Bass gang,

Mitts here. Long time lurker and occasional poster. I'm a big fan of vintage Ampeg, Fender and Wem amps and would be really happy to hear from bass players who are keen to share and explore vintage era technical and sonic stuff. I play for a few notable artists and always try and take my vintage bits and bobs with me on the road where possible

I recently acquired a 1979 Ampeg 8x10 which has been used by Iggy Pop's band - it's been in a lockup for a while though. I've been experimenting with different cabs to use with my 1970 SVT head and this is by miles the best sounding thing I've played through. I never really paid attention to speaker details before thinking that 90% of the tone comes from the head! This cab sounds huge and very warm but much tighter in the low frequencies than any modern era cab I've tried there's none of the 100Hz sort of flab and the HF is super controlled and really smooth.

I'm guessing that the actual physical construction of the cabs from this era hasn't changed much over time but the speakers obviously have. Does anyone have any leads on what speakers Ampeg were using in their 8x10's during this period. This is a 1979 cab with a white plastic A logo. The original speakers have quite small diameter voice coils by modern standards. I couldn't get one out the other day because they have those annoying Ampeg nuts but I've sonce bought a mini socket set and will go back for another dig in a few days. I know they'll be Eminence somethings!

Three of the originals have been replaced with modern equivalents which don't sound great and several of the remaining originals are on the way out and cracking up at volume but even so this cab has a tone and voice that's so great. If I could source some NOS speakers I'd be very happy. I have a guy in London at Wembley Speakers who's great at reconing weird old vintage things but before I go to him if anyone has any leads on what these are and how to source them I'd really love to hear from you.

I spoke to Dino at Ampeg about this and he had a ton of tech info about the various valve changes and circuit mods in the SVT heads but even he wasn't sure about the Eminence speaker specs from this period. I want to get this cab restored back to as close as poss vintage spec and then make a comparison vid which I'll stick up on youtube of my 1970 SVT/1979 cab with the new Ampeg 50th SVT/Heritage reissue 8x10 which they sent out to be a few days ago. Should be a really fun nerdy thing to do in the lockdown!

Here are some pics of the vintage cab and speakers (the head is the new reissue) please get in touch vintage nerds if you have any info Mitts )

 

[JimmyM]

Ampeg was using 32 ohm Eminences specially made for the 810 back then.

 

[Sid 31Hz]

I have the same cab with a serial number close to yours. I had to replace one speaker. I ended up going with a 32 OHM made in USA Eminence Ampeg Heritage speaker and it fit right in with the rest tone wise. If I had to replace all of them I would go with the that same speaker if they are still available. I've played over 500 shows with that cab and IMHO it has sounded better than all other Ampeg 8X10s I have used.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, if I were going to replace all the speakers, the Heritage is what I'd use, too.

 

[mitts]

Thanks for your replies guys. Really helpful and useful info. That's great to know the new Heritage drivers worked out for @Sid 31Hz and thanks for the helpful advice @JimmyM

I had another play through the cab today and the only speakers that really need to be replaced are the replacements! The remaining Eminence ones that are in there sound a LITTLE wooly at volume but they're going pretty strong.

I managed to dig one of the original speakers out with a mini socket set. 580155-2 is the model number, 67 is the Eminence code and 79-20 means the 20th week of 1979 so these are from May '79 which is the same as the cabinet. First pic below is the Eminence speaker. There are 5 of these in the cabinet. I'm going to try and find some NOS of these in the UK if anyone has any leads on this please drop me a line

What's extra odd are the three replacement speakers check the second pic below...

ORIGINAL EMINENCE SPEAKER

What's pretty odd are the three replacement speakers. One is a more modern Eminence Alpha but the other two look like they're square magnet CTS speakers from 1974. I'm assuming these are recones. They're so far gone that I can't tell how they are tonally - on one you can feel the voice coil scratching when you push the cone in and out and the other one is distorting loads at any sort of volume. If they're not recones then I guess it would figure that they're dead is it possible these CTS speakers are only 25 watts? There are two of these in the cab I wonder if it's worth getting them reconed! Does anyone have any notes on how these compare to the Eminence speakers sonically?

 

[JimmyM]

The CTS's are world renowned as the standard by which they are all judged. I got mine reconed and they sounded amazing. They do a little better than 25w, but they definitely aren't high power handling. But the tone, man...the tone!

 

[waltdogg]

Just look for someone parting out one of these cabs because they want to put higher power speakers in it. I saw someone doing it locally on craigslist in the last year. The tone of the original CTS or Eminence speakers is unrivaled.

 

[mitts]

Nice one Jimmy That's a pretty cool surprise then! I was expecting the replacement speakers to be garbage tbh.

I'll def get these two CTS speaker reconed then. It will be interesting to hear the difference between those and the Eminence's

It might also be cool to have a cabinet with different tonal options in the recording studio too even if my OCD nature is struggling to deal with not having 8 identical speakers in there!!! I guess the 8x10 is effectively 4 different sealed cabinets so I wonder if this mod to the top two speakers has actually been done on purpose at some point?

 

[mitts]

Just look for someone parting out one of these cabs because they want to put higher power speakers in it. I saw someone doing it locally on craigslist in the last year. The tone of the original CTS or Eminence speakers is unrivaled.

I'll definitely be on the lookout for that Walt thanks. I'm in the UK and there are a lot less of these old skool Ampeg things around here than in the USA but finger crossed I'll find something I can use from that era here

 

[JimmyM]

Nice one Jimmy That's a pretty cool surprise then! I was expecting the replacement speakers to be garbage tbh.

I'll def get these two CTS speaker reconed then. It will be interesting to hear the difference between those and the Eminence's

It might also be cool to have a cabinet with different tonal options in the recording studio too even if my OCD nature is struggling to deal with not having 8 identical speakers in there!!! I guess the 8x10 is effectively 4 different sealed cabinets so I wonder if this mod to the top two speakers has actually been done on purpose at some point?

Funny you say that, Ben...The bassist for Staind used to come on here a lot and said that he had a special 810 for the studio that had pairs of different speakers in each compartment just so he could experiment with the different sounds. And then there used to be a guy on here who recommended using Mod 50-32's in the top compartment of the darker sounding 810e's of 2000-06 to brighten them up a little. Only thing is it lowered the power handling down to what the Mod 50's handle.

I've only used the late 70's cabs with Eminences a few times (I used to do a lot of fly gigs with rented backline), but they sound great, so do the CTS-loaded cabs. I slightly favor the CTS's but it's a lot closer than people think they are. The only real difference is the CTS's use alnico and the Eminences are made with ceramic magnets. And in your hands, anything will sound great, and I think it would be fun to have a cab with both.

 

[mitts]

Hey Jimmy,

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. The Jensen Mod 10-50 looks like an interesting proposition just checked it out on the Jensen site. Did the guy who recommended them say they were on the bright side of things? They look like a bit of a hybrid vintage vibe but modern construction.

I also had a friend at one of the big backline rental companies in London recommend Weber speakers who also apparently do a 10" driver with a ceramic magnet in 32 ohms - I couldn't find it on their website though but I just popped an email over to them

I similarly do a lot of gigs with rental backline and it's only been in this weird year of no gigs that I'm really finding the time to get nerdy about what I really like from amps, speakers, pickups, pedals, cables, everything really. It's been so rewarding to spend the time doing this and great meeting other people like yourself who really care about and have knowledge about tone the devil is truly in the detail with this stuff and it's only by spending time experimenting that you get somewhere worthwhile. I've definitely improved my tone over this period though which is so cool. I can't wait to get back out playing properly and turn some of this stuff up loud!

If you're on a similar mission the things that have really floated my boat were Curtis Novak's pickups - I had a late 70s p bass that always sounded a bit lightweight and I put one of his PBCC pickups in it which is a P bass pickup with a P90 magnet on it. It has this really rich tone which I'm loving. I also loved the Source Audio Aftershock distortion pedal - it's almost a DAW of every legendary fuzz and overdive unit from the 60s till now in a stompbox. Sounds like a gimmick but it's totally killer and pretty accurate every time! The thing that - and this is so boring - but it made a massive difference to my tone was checking out really high quality instrument cables. I was recording a lot in my project studio and I really started noticing the difference between cables. I ended up finding these guys in Switzerland called Vovox who make instrument cables from the most oxygen free copper they can source. The difference in recorded sound is really noticeable it's like hearing a wav over an mp3 of your bass takes. I was always such a punk rock shager and such a cynic about this kind of stuff before! But it really made a difference. The cables aren't cheap but it makes so much sense to plug in your £5000 vintage instrument with a similarly great made cable. Anyway that's my 2 cents hope it's no too nerdy for you!

I was also wondering - you seem like a pretty clued in cat with technical stuff - do you have any suggestions for pedalboard switching systems? There are a ton to choose from and I wondered what people are using. I have an old Boss LS2 which I've been using live until now but the buffer in it isn't amazing and I'd love to get something more transparent and high tech that lets me bring pedals in and out but also where I can have a completely clean connection between the bass and the preamp of whichever amp I'm plugging into.

Happy weekend Jimmy lots of love and all the low notes to you sir
Benny x

 

[beans-on-toast]

Whatever you decide to go with, the pair of speakers in any chamber should be the same.

As for pedalboard switching...The Boss ES-5 and ES-8 are worth looking at. Voodoo Lab has a good switcher.

Always fun to check out the Pete Cornish pedal products: Pete Cornish. If you have deep pockets, check out Effects Pedal Board Systems

 

[Jim C]

I've got to say it:

From Iggy's band!

Awesome find; there's got to be some good, bad, and twisted mojo in that box.
I was one of the staff soundmen at the 9:30 club in DC and they played there in about the mid 80's.
The band was very cool. The crew was horrible.

 

[Wasnex]

As @beans-on-toast said, make sure each compartment has a matching set of speakers. Mixing drivers in a chamber will reduce power handling and put both drivers at risk.

If you get the alnicos reconed and installed, the power handling of the cab drops to about 240W...so you can't max out the amp without risking the alnicos. FYI, Back when Ampeg equipped 810s with alnicos, you needed two cabs to handle the full power of an SVT.

The drivers are 32 ohms and connected in parallel. 32/8=4 ohms. Because the drivers are all 32 ohms and they are connected in parallel they will share the power equally. At 240 the power is split eight ways. 240W/8=30W. AFAIK 30W is the power rating of the alnico drivers.

A lot of people seem to think the Heritage drivers sound very close to the Alnicos. Unfortunately the Heritage driver is considerably more expensive than the regular 810 driver, and I believe it has been out of stock for quite awhile:
Invalid Link Removed

This is the regular OEM driver: Invalid Link Removed

Highly Regarded Eminence replacement driver: Invalid Link Removed

You should be able to find reviews compairing the regular OEM driver to the B810. Soundwise, they are close but not identical. Specs say the B810 handles 50W more.

Since the Heritage drivers seem hard to come buy, consider buying four OEM drivers or four B810s. Put those in the bottom of the cab and put the best four vintage Eminence drivers in the top of the cab. Or if you find you like the new drivers better, put the new drivers in the top of the cab. You could even alternate driver type every other compartment if you like...just make sure you have a matching pair drivers in each compartment.

Recone the alnicos and sell them...either that or start hunting down 6 more alnico drivers. Be advised that Ampeg used different brands and models of Alnicos as well, so keep this in mind when you are pairing up drivers.

 

[Old Fart]

That cab and bass look REALLY beat up. I'll give you $500 for them but only if you deliver.

 

[mitts]

That cab and bass look REALLY beat up. I'll give you $500 for them but only if you deliver.

If you live somewhere sunny I would seriously consider that London is COLD right now!!!

 

[JimmyM]

Hey Jimmy,

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. The Jensen Mod 10-50 looks like an interesting proposition just checked it out on the Jensen site. Did the guy who recommended them say they were on the bright side of things? They look like a bit of a hybrid vintage vibe but modern construction.

I believe he said they were actually the closest thing to the old 70's Ampeg speakers he had seen, until...

I also had a friend at one of the big backline rental companies in London recommend Weber speakers who also apparently do a 10" driver with a ceramic magnet in 32 ohms - I couldn't find it on their website though but I just popped an email over to them

...Weber came along with those speakers I kind of lost track of things like what Weber's doing in more recent years. But I've heard those speakers are actually clones of the CTS's.

I similarly do a lot of gigs with rental backline and it's only been in this weird year of no gigs that I'm really finding the time to get nerdy about what I really like from amps, speakers, pickups, pedals, cables, everything really. It's been so rewarding to spend the time doing this and great meeting other people like yourself who really care about and have knowledge about tone the devil is truly in the detail with this stuff and it's only by spending time experimenting that you get somewhere worthwhile. I've definitely improved my tone over this period though which is so cool. I can't wait to get back out playing properly and turn some of this stuff up loud!

No doubt. I really miss playing out, too.

If you're on a similar mission the things that have really floated my boat were Curtis Novak's pickups - I had a late 70s p bass that always sounded a bit lightweight and I put one of his PBCC pickups in it which is a P bass pickup with a P90 magnet on it. It has this really rich tone which I'm loving. I also loved the Source Audio Aftershock distortion pedal - it's almost a DAW of every legendary fuzz and overdive unit from the 60s till now in a stompbox. Sounds like a gimmick but it's totally killer and pretty accurate every time! The thing that - and this is so boring - but it made a massive difference to my tone was checking out really high quality instrument cables. I was recording a lot in my project studio and I really started noticing the difference between cables. I ended up finding these guys in Switzerland called Vovox who make instrument cables from the most oxygen free copper they can source. The difference in recorded sound is really noticeable it's like hearing a wav over an mp3 of your bass takes. I was always such a punk rock shagger and such a cynic about this kind of stuff before! But it really made a difference. The cables aren't cheap but it makes so much sense to plug in your £5000 vintage instrument with a similarly great made cable. Anyway that's my 2 cents hope it's no too nerdy for you!

Well I still buy the cables that are on sale at Sam Ash but only because I mostly use a wireless when gigging, which makes cables pretty irrelevant due to their built in buffering. But I used to have an Aftershock and it's a really cool pedal, and I loved that thread you did on the Novaks.

I was also wondering - you seem like a pretty clued in cat with technical stuff - do you have any suggestions for pedalboard switching systems? There are a ton to choose from and I wondered what people are using. I have an old Boss LS2 which I've been using live until now but the buffer in it isn't amazing and I'd love to get something more transparent and high tech that lets me bring pedals in and out but also where I can have a completely clean connection between the bass and the preamp of whichever amp I'm plugging into.

Ben, honestly, I line up a few pedals when I need them, plug them into a straight line to the amp, and I don't use switching systems. The Voodoo Labs stuff seems to get a lot of love but I haven't a clue about them. Best to ask that in Effects where there are very knowledgeable folks about switching systems.

Happy weekend Jimmy lots of love and all the low notes to you sir
Benny x

Lots of love right back at you Ben, although our weekend in Florida is almost over and yours actually is. So I'll wish you a great week instead!

 

[Wasnex]

The Jensen Mod 10-50 looks like an interesting proposition just checked it out on the Jensen site. Did the guy who recommended them say they were on the bright side of things? They look like a bit of a hybrid vintage vibe but modern construction.

For awhile people were running a pair of the Jensen Mod 10-50s in the top compartment. The recommendation was to run a capacitor to function as an HPF to protect the driver from low frequencies. The driver has a 50W RMS power, but Xmax is only 2mm and resonance (Fs) is 110.6hz. Pretty sure the driver will fart out fairly easily without the capacitor. Sensitivity is 91.9dB 1w/1m

Compare to the Eminence B810. 150RMS power rating, Xmax = 4.7 mm, and Fs = 52hz, Sensitivity = 92.9dB 1w/1m.

 

[Gtack]

I just tore apart a vintage Ampeg SVT 8x10 cabinet that I've had for years, taking up space in storage. I have 8 speakers 580155-2 677648. Can anyone tell me what year these are and what they are worth. The speakers are in good condition. I even have all the screws!!

 

[beans-on-toast]

I just tore apart a vintage Ampeg SVT 8x10 cabinet that I've had for years, taking up space in storage. I have 8 speakers 580155-2 677648. Can anyone tell me what year these are and what they are worth. The speakers are in good condition. I even have all the screws!!

Looks like Eminence (67), manufactured in the 48th week of 1976.

Value? You aren’t allowed to ask unless you are a supporting member. For references, look at past sales on ebay and reverb.