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Vintage basses: Exchange Value vs. Use Value

Some vintage basses ARE truly unique.

Quite a few of them, actually...if one digs ever so slightly beyond the surface...

People like to say the Gibson Triumph has one usable tone, but that tone is thunder and sounds unlike any new bass out there. Steinberger L2 et al also come to mind.

The original ('69-72) Les Paul Bass as well as the Triumph are basses for very patient people. That's a rare breed to begin with. As for the L2 - which I also owned back in the '80s - I can't think of a single other bass apart from the early Status offerings that brings out the faults in one's playing with such a torturing precision. Most people can't handle that challenge, IMO/IME.

No bass in current production sounds like an EB-3, or an old alu-neck Kramer either. Guild B-302/X-702/JS-2 also come to mind as "unique sounding" vintage pieces. There's a lot more out there...

The ultimate "sleeper" vintage bass in my view is the Ovation Magnum. Not much that one can't do with it, although I'll admit that the neck pickup position makes slapping difficult. If my hands were in better shape I'd most certainly be owning one...
 
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Have you ever paid a premium for a vintage bass only to be disappointed by its limitations?

I buy vintage (70s-80s to be precise) almost exclusively and have been impressed more often that not.

Still, I sometimes find too little use for some basses compared to what I pay for them. The most notable for me was my experiment with owning a Fender Musicmaster, whose tone I personally found so weak and limited that I immediately set out to mod it before giving up altogether. Another is the Hohner 185, which, although beautifully built, had--to my ears anyway--no punch or bottom end worth talking about. I also did not like the 1967 Gibson EB-0 I briefly owned but for the opposite reason: too much bottom end. This is all personal of course, and I am nowhere near as qualified a connoisseur as most longstanding and engaged members of this forum.

In both cases, I did do some basic research, but videos can be deceiving and Talkbass is not where you go for a clear concensus. That's just how trial and error goes, but it's getting more expensive by the month to experiment, especially if you live outside a major city centre.

Anyone have or have had a vintage bass that they think is getting way too expensive for what you get? Corrections and comments welcome.

Since I learned to play bass in 1968, you could say that I'm vintage, myself. I also have a pretty good idea of which "Vintage" basses are worth a "premium", and which basses are probably not worth taking a chance on - at any price. That said; do I have - or have had - a vintage bass that meets your criteria? Yes, I have...
- '72 Epiphone EA-260. A short scale hollowbody bass, made by Matsumoku, and marketed under several brands. Like Aria, for instance; except for the color & a fancier tailpiece, the Aria E-5120 is exactly the same bass. For a long time, late '60s - early '70's Japanese instruments like these were... not very desirable. As other "Vintage" basses have disappeared, these basses are now seen as collectible, and prices have risen accordingly. Unfortunately, an inexpensive bass from back then, hasn't improved in quality as a result of being 50 years older. While it is possible to find one that's still playable without needing major reconstructive surgery, they are now few and far between. Mine was a very nice one; except for needing it's neck shimmed, it played well, and sounded like a hollowbody short scale bass should. Buying one now, though, is a crap shoot - and one you're more likely to loose, than win. Any MIJ bass from this era is more likely than not to have a bad neck; dud pickups/tuners; or both. And, if it's one with a set neck? Know anybody that can re-set it? 'Cause it's probably gonna need it...
- Rickenbacker 4001. I have one; a left handed '73, that still has it's original bridge p/u cover, and it's original "Wavy" Grover tuners. While mine plays/sounds like a vintage Rick should, the early 4001's can be a disaster - a very expensive disaster. Any 4001 that has the neck pickup 5/8" from the heel of the neck - in other words, before it was moved to it's current position - like on a 4003 - is susceptible to a condition known as "Negative Neck Angle". Because the pickup rout is both much too big (known among Rickista's as the "Bathtub Rout"), and is in the spot where the neck begins to transition into the body, that spot is structurally very weak. All that's holding the neck and body together is a thin, fairly narrow piece of wood. The neck, under string tension, doesn't actually bend; instead, that little piece of wood becomes a hinge, and the entire neck begins to rise up - like a drawbridge opening. It can get to the point where the body wings begin to separate from the body center, but it will make the bass unplayable long before that happens. It can be fixed, but it's very time consuming; very expensive; and very few people are willing to do it. And, yes; my 4001 is showing the symptoms. The bridge is down as far as it will go, and the string height above the 12th fret is too high - for a Rick. It's still playable, but... it will have to be fixed. Left handed 4001's are too scarce - and too expensive - not to. If you want a pre... '78, IIRC... 4001? You definitely need to check it first, before you spend what these things cost... and wind up with a very expensive dud...
- Fenders. I have one; a lefty, '78 P-Bass with an "A-spec" neck. When I bought it, it was just a used, kinda beat up, 10 y/o P-Bass. I had to have it re-finished and re-fretted (long story), but otherwise? It's all original, and I imagine it's now worth considerably more than I paid for it. Would I pay what they want for a lefty '78 P-Bass today? Well... maybe; if it had the "A" neck. Otherwise? Oh, HELL no... I won't waste anyone's time re-hashing all the pro's and con's of vintage Fenders; half the threads in this forum can do it much better than I can...
Anyway... other than those 3? I have several other basses that I suppose qualify as "Vintage" - especially if you agree with eBay that any bass that's older than 20 qualifies as Vintage. But, IMO they aren't ones that qualify as "way too expensive for what you get". Not quite yet, anyway... But, I'm looking through a Left handed lens, so maybe the view is a little distorted...:whistle:
 
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I sometimes link this video in the vintage bass threads, so that folks don't get too starry-eyed about those pre-CBS Fenders. Nostalgic, absolutely and worth the money to an aficionado/collector, absolutely. But also important to keep in mind what you're doing if you're going to shell out the family farm to buy one:

L


Fender began as a mass production business and has never really been anything but a mass production business. Their goal was to make affordable 'gigging quality' instruments for their time period, beginning with the electric lap steel guitar (because the inventor, Paul Tutmarc didn't apply for a patent for it). The 'Precision' bass had exactly the same incentive for Fender, Paul Tutmarc didn't apply for a patent for it in the mid 1930's.
Neither Fenders, nor Gibsons, were made to be engineering/aesthetic marvels, they were made to be played by Joe or Jane Blow with no consideration given to people's opinions decades later.
 
Fender began as a mass production business and has never really been anything but a mass production business. Their goal was to make affordable 'gigging quality' instruments for their time period, beginning with the electric lap steel guitar (because the inventor, Paul Tutmarc didn't apply for a patent for it). The 'Precision' bass had exactly the same incentive for Fender, Paul Tutmarc didn't apply for a patent for it in the mid 1930's.
Neither Fenders, nor Gibsons, were made to be engineering/aesthetic marvels, they were made to be played by Joe or Jane Blow with no consideration given to people's opinions decades later.

True, collectibles are hard to predict. No one knew a 10 cent comic book would someday fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars, even save someone’s home from foreclosure. Superman Comic Saves Family Home From Foreclosure
 

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