Vintage basses: Exchange Value vs. Use Value

[coy garcia]

I think the most important factor here is that some people love antiques.... furniture, cars, basses etc... I am one of those people. I love the look, feel and stories they could tell if they could speak. Antiques will rarely perform as well as modern engineered things but that is not why most people desire them.

 

[mike buzzetti]

 

[Topkat13]

All instruments have limitations. $’s don’t factor in. It’s what the artist does with it.

 

[Jefenator]

The key is to try the stuff before the premium kicks in. I went through my "real vintage Fender" phase back when they could still be found for under $1000.
For the most vibe for the buck, I now look to gear from the 1990s and early '00s. 20-30 years of mojo and the collectors haven't set their full sights on it yet...

 

[Ric Vice]

I once played a '59 P bass at Carter Vintage in Nashville that was nothing special at all. I actually like my mid 80s MIJ Fender P a LOT better than that bass.

So, I think it varies by bass. That '63 I referenced earlier would have been worth every penny of the almost $4,000 they were asking for it. (Carter used to work for Gruhn and knew EXACTLY what the bass was worth since he had personally appraised hundreds of vintage guitars and basses before that day.) The '59 would have been too much at 500 bucks to me (other than to flip it, of course).

So, to answer your question, I think INDIVIDUAL basses can be worth the crazy asking prices if they are, in fact, "special". But just being old does nothing for me and doesn't make a bass "special" at all.

Well not my experience at all where the 1959 is concerned. The neck is the most comfortable 4 string I’ve ever played, by comparison the first Precision Bass I owned
a 1968, had a neck that felt like a junior league baseball bat cut in half. I’ve played Fender Custom Shop 58’s & 59’s that don’t come close to the feel and playability of the particular 59 in my possession. Just my take, you’d have to play mine to get a sense of what I’m talking about. As far as vintage prices go I personally think they’re
inflated and pretty ridiculous. It’s a block of alder or ash, a maple plank, two pots, two pickups, frets and hardware. If I step behind a screen and play my bass and then play yours it’s a 50/50 split as to which person in the audience prefers which bass.

 

[Snert]

If I step behind a screen and play my bass and then play yours it’s a 50/50 split as to which person in the audience prefers which bass.

I'd say it's more like 99:1 that they won't be able to tell a difference in them at all.

 

[luciens]

I sometimes link this video in the vintage bass threads, so that folks don't get too starry-eyed about those pre-CBS Fenders. Nostalgic, absolutely and worth the money to an aficionado/collector, absolutely. But also important to keep in mind what you're doing if you're going to shell out the family farm to buy one:

L

 

[GodsLove66]

Eh...I got a 1972 Gibson Triumph, it was a STUPID good deal (through Guitar Center), but a year in, while I love it (sort-of) I see why it didn't last....A LOT of tonal variety that I frankly find rather useless, and contrary to the name, it is a HORRID bass to record with lol. BUUUUT I got it at such a steal, it's hard for me to let it go "What is this Vintage Gibson goes up in value?" y'know?

 

[mike buzzetti]

The key is to try the stuff before the premium kicks in. I went through my "real vintage Fender" phase back when they could still be found for under $1000.
For the most vibe for the buck, I now look to gear from the 1990s and early '00s. 20-30 years of mojo and the collectors haven't set their full sights on it yet...

Nobody is gonna care about a 1999 !! to many units have been made the whole reason older guitars/basses are worth what they are worth is how rare they are for 1 thing , after 4 million copies they don't care , a 1963 strat is worth more than a 62-61 because it is considered the Jimi Year thats it.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

I find that my one vintage bass is both valued and a serious player.
It was my most expensive, but even then I got a hell of a deal on it.
At the same time, I am one of those many bassists that find that a vintage P just sounds right.
We have had many discussions here about how to get a good, believable vintage P sound.
I find that using a vintage P is the easiest and, by far, most convincing way to get that sound, so it is worth a good bit to me as a player.

It also means a lot to me that it will always remind me of the two friends that decided that I should have that bass.
At first I just thought there was no way I could afford that.
Then they told me the price (a fraction of it's worth!) AND let me pay it out over time.

 

[bassclef112]

When I got my '66 J some 20 odd years ago I was gigging crazy and going through basses regularly. I finally decided I needed "real" vintage and see what it was all about. Nobody was more skeptical than me about their aura. So I went to my buddy, a licensed dealer, to shop. He had 5 '60's ('62, '64, (2) '66, '68) and 2 early '70's J's, all complete and straight. Most with some playwear, one was immaculate.
Got to play them all for 2+ hours through a killer Demeter/Bergantino double cab rig. That kind of comparison shopping with no pressure was a real treat. Learned a lot with this playthrough. Vintage does not equal automatic manna.

It was the peak of the "gotta get me a vintage" bubble and I paid a premium for this one. It's not a closet classic and clearly was played a lot, honest relicing. It plays beautifully and AFAIC it has enough of "it" to keep me satisfied. It still makes me smile whenever I play it.
So, I'm sure I'd never get all of my money back in a sale. But feeling that I found a good one makes its value established for me. I just feel pretty lucky to have it.
P.S. My first real bass was a brand new '70 Telecaster. Still got that too and its value is beyond measure.

 

[mcrawfordmusic]

I recently bought a ‘79 P that turned out to be nothing special. In fact, most of the vintage basses I have owned have been just OK.

One plus side of vintage gear is resale value. I’ll be able to flip that ‘79 P for at least what I paid, if not more.

 

[Ace Of Bass]

I find I get my money’s worth as long as I have a good/great idea of what I’m looking for, what it should feel like and what it should sound like….when I wasn’t thorough enough , I made mistakes and got a few less than desirables but I took some time to better understand what I wanted and needed and was fortunate enough to go out and get exactly that..

As far as value, I know how to spot a good deal and don’t buy unless a significant deal is to be had….my oldest current bass, a ‘76 Jazz, I got basically just as The Great Isolation began two years ago…it was definitely a time of great bargains appearing everywhere due to hard times for some sellers and a great time for buyers (strictly talking about the marketplace…not all the sadness of that year)…the bass is worth quite a bit
More than I paid for it now that the market has settled again quite a bit…sometimes you just win easier than others, I guess..

 

[Mastermold]

While there are good and bad basses now, there are lot more good basses in terms of percentage (and absolute numbers, as production is way up) than there were in the past. A modern Squier is a much more precisely made instrument than what Fender made in the 60's (and especially what they made in the 70's) - the cheap way to do it now (cnc machining) is also the precise way to do it. So long as the wood is stable (which isn't guaranteed, unfortunately), it's kinda hard to make a bad bass nowadays. Most of them play great out of the factory, "magic" I'll leave to another thread.

Eh, my 60's Fenders are much better instruments than any of the modern Squiers I've owned. Granted I've had some nice Squiers and I'm not against them, my experience has ultimately been they look nicer on the internet photos than they end up being once I own them.

 

[StayLow]

Have you ever paid a premium for a vintage bass only to be disappointed by its limitations?

I am its limitations.

 

[Mastermold]

When I got my '66 J some 20 odd years ago I was gigging crazy and going through basses regularly. I finally decided I needed "real" vintage and see what it was all about. Nobody was more skeptical than me about their aura. So I went to my buddy, a licensed dealer, to shop. He had 5 '60's ('62, '64, (2) '66, '68) and 2 early '70's J's, all complete and straight. Most with some playwear, one was immaculate.
Got to play them all for 2+ hours through a killer Demeter/Bergantino double cab rig. That kind of comparison shopping with no pressure was a real treat. Learned a lot with this playthrough. Vintage does not equal automatic manna.

It was the peak of the "gotta get me a vintage" bubble and I paid a premium for this one. It's not a closet classic and clearly was played a lot, honest relicing. It plays beautifully and AFAIC it has enough of "it" to keep me satisfied. It still makes me smile whenever I play it.
So, I'm sure I'd never get all of my money back in a sale. But feeling that I found a good one makes its value established for me. I just feel pretty lucky to have it.
P.S. My first real bass was a brand new '70 Telecaster. Still got that too and its value is beyond measure.

This is the key. Vintage basses are just basses. You're not guaranteed anything, good or bad, buying one. Treat them like the individuals they are. Play it. If it's a good one and speaks to you, buy it. If not, move on. Unless you're interest is solely as a collector, you're best served by trying before you buy.

For me personally, my interest in vintage instruments starts with a sound I'm seeking and if I'm able to find an authentic instrument that has it I'll prefer that over a reissue. I'm player, not a collector for collecting's sake, so all my vintage basses were purchased with a specific use in mind first and I did my homework before purchasing.

 

[Gizmot]

I’ve been playing since ‘64 and some of the instruments some might call vintage I owned back then. Guitar players are usually more nostalgic about instruments from the 50s through the 70s and pay stratospheric prices for them. I have lots of experience with so-called vintage instruments and although there are some of them that feel or sound good, it’s mostly hit or miss because their makers simply didn’t have the precision tools and manufacturing methods that nearly all companies now use. If older instruments have anything going for them it’s just that the wood that was available decades ago was slightly better than newer wood. Don’t fall into the mindset that if it’s older it’s better - your chances of getting a good instrument are much better now thanks to modern manufacturing. For the cost of some instruments you can buy something that is much better

 

[pepj]

I dont have anything that is beyond 25yrs but I think all my current basses have increased in value since I've had them.
Or will do in 5 years. Do you see what you get for $2k these days.

My mid 70's jazz was a dog, my late 70's MM was bomber..it was only the sound that I needed gone.
Both would sell for close on 10 times what I sold them for...but I would not have used them for 25 years and basses need to be played, imv.

 

[2F/2F]

The most notable for me was my experiment with owning a Fender Musicmaster, whose tone I personally found so weak and limited that I immediately set out to mod it before giving up altogether.

It's really weird to me when people say that about the Musicmaster.

I have gigged a stock-spec '75 Musicmaster more than any other bass over the past 34 years. It sounds monstrous. Completely pro level build quality and tone, easily able to sound like my very expensive American Vintage P Bass – and from Fender's cheapest bass at the time, during their worst-ever period...powered by a guitar pickup.

Weak and limited? I don't get it in the slightest. Unless talking about a very special purpose, I pick other basses based on looks alone; the Musicmasters can do what they do, without the slightest struggle.

 

[JimmyM]

Nobody is gonna care about a 1999 !!

People like you said the same thing about 70s basses back in the 90s. So I wouldn’t rule that out.

As for me, I never cared about vintage. Still don’t. Many of them are gorgeous, many of them are fantastic players. But I can say that about basses made at any time. It just doesn’t mean much to me. Every bass I own sits on the stand waiting for me to play it. If I play well, it’s a great sounding bass. If I don’t, then it might as well be a Glarry.