Vintage basses: Exchange Value vs. Use Value

[Zooberwerx]

I’m a ‘58 bassist and worth about a buck two-eighty. If a ‘58 Precision...well, that’s another story.

Riis

 

[Green Knight]

Vintage Rare Westone Thunder 1982 Red Matsumoku Short Scale 32" | Reverb

I've been looking at this one for a while now ... 895 CAD and accepting offers ... I mean, a new MIM P--high quality basses but a dime a dozen--costs way more than that these days. Not in buying mode right now, sadly, but it seems stuff like this pops up all the time. EDIT: Just realized I'm derailing my own thread.

 

[mike buzzetti]

Vintage Rare Westone Thunder 1982 Red Matsumoku Short Scale 32" | Reverb

I've been looking at this one for a while now ... 895 CAD and accepting offers ... I mean, a new MIM P--high quality basses but a dime a dozen--costs way more than that these days. Not in buying mode right now, sadly, but it seems stuff like this pops up all the time. EDIT: Just realized I'm derailing my own thread.

Never even heard of Westone until this thread ?? Humm

 

[mikewalker]

Westone were big up here in Canada.... back in the day every music store seemed to have a range of them

 

[Rib 13]

Westone were big up here in Canada.... back in the day every music store seemed to have a range of them

Stupid me sold my Electra Westone X640N a few years ago when I made the decision to quit playing in cover bands after thirty years and refocus myself with original music....I went into a thin the herd moment where I had 17 basses and wanted to go down to 4 or 5.......that resulted in me now owning 20 instruments and kind of missing some of those I sold, that X640N being on top

 

[Green Knight]

Stupid me sold my Electra Westone X640N a few years ago when I made the decision to quit playing in cover bands after thirty years and refocus myself with original music....I went into a thin the herd moment where I had 17 basses and wanted to go down to 4 or 5.......that resulted in me now owning 20 instruments and kind of missing some of those I sold, that X640N being on top

just googled it ... the coolest P/P version came up! ... haha GAS is irrepressible

 

[two fingers]

The Carters are great to deal with even by email.

They absolutely were very kind

 

[Pings Bass]

It will be passed on in an inheritance.

Same reason I hold onto my 76 P. It plays and sounds great, but no better than any number of modern basses that can be had for far less. Like many fair-to-middlin fenders, it's worth far more on the vintage market than it's worth as player.

 

[Grinderman]

Have you ever paid a premium for a vintage bass only to be disappointed by its limitations?

I buy vintage (70s-80s to be precise) almost exclusively and have been impressed more often that not.

Still, I sometimes find too little use for some basses compared to what I pay for them. The most notable for me was my experiment with owning a Fender Musicmaster, whose tone I personally found so weak and limited that I immediately set out to mod it before giving up altogether. Another is the Hohner 185, which, although beautifully built, had--to my ears anyway--no punch or bottom end worth talking about. I also did not like the 1967 Gibson EB-0 I briefly owned but for the opposite reason: too much bottom end. This is all personal of course, and I am nowhere near as qualified a connoisseur as most longstanding and engaged members of this forum.

In both cases, I did do some basic research, but videos can be deceiving and Talkbass is not where you go for a clear concensus. That's just how trial and error goes, but it's getting more expensive by the month to experiment, especially if you live outside a major city centre.

Anyone have or have had a vintage bass that they think is getting way too expensive for what you get? Corrections and comments welcome.

Well that does it, I'm finally old. A Fender I bought new when I was in high school is vintage now.

 

[Green Knight]

Well that does it, I'm finally old. A Fender I bought new when I was in high school is vintage now.

Same here! '89 mind you but still

my first bass, a kent, was vintage when i got it from my uncle ... it was a hunk of junk IIRC

 

[Grinderman]

BTW, my next bass I bought was an early '65, player grade, hippie natural with tort, L-serial number Fender Jazz bass.

 

[ToddB1963]

I have two of what might be considered 'vintage' basses, and they're both Japanese - but I did a lot of research before purchasing them.

The '82 Yamaha BB2000 ( purchased three years ago - I'd wanted one since the 80's but they'd dropped off my radar) cost me what I'd currently pay for a new Fender Player Series ($1200 AUD) but its tonal value (to me at least) far exceeds that of the Japanese Sadowsky Metro UV70 Jazz I owned a few years back and paid three times as much for. It is an outstanding instrument and sounds superb on a big stage.

The '84 Yamaha BB3000 ( purchased early last year ) cost me the same amount, and while it doesn't sound quite as good as the 2000, it's a very versatile bass, in fact it's now my go-to for a small modern jazz combo I've been a member of for 20+ years. It's a superior instrument to the 2013 American Standard Jazz it replaced and light years ahead on the 1978 jazz I once owned ( which had I kept it, would now be worth around $5000 here ).
Both represent excellent value for money

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Have you ever paid a premium for a vintage bass only to be disappointed by its limitations?

I buy vintage (70s-80s to be precise) almost exclusively and have been impressed more often that not.

Still, I sometimes find too little use for some basses compared to what I pay for them. The most notable for me was my experiment with owning a Fender Musicmaster, whose tone I personally found so weak and limited that I immediately set out to mod it before giving up altogether. Another is the Hohner 185, which, although beautifully built, had--to my ears anyway--no punch or bottom end worth talking about. I also did not like the 1967 Gibson EB-0 I briefly owned but for the opposite reason: too much bottom end. This is all personal of course, and I am nowhere near as qualified a connoisseur as most longstanding and engaged members of this forum.

In both cases, I did do some basic research, but videos can be deceiving and Talkbass is not where you go for a clear concensus. That's just how trial and error goes, but it's getting more expensive by the month to experiment, especially if you live outside a major city centre.

Anyone have or have had a vintage bass that they think is getting way too expensive for what you get? Corrections and comments welcome.

Heck, at age 69, I’m vintage!! And I assure you nothing is working better than it was 50 years ago LOL!! And I doubt anybody in their right mind is going to pay me the Alpha some of these basses are bringing.

That said, I’ve known a lot of people that love antiquity, and there is nothing wrong with it. Personally I don’t find much value in it. Products today are so much better, the quality is so much more consistent than it was 50 years ago, not to mention per man hour worked, a lot less expensive.

As this relates to electric basses, I was there playing them as they came off the line. There is no way I would pay for a 60-70-80s bass without having it in my hands for a through vetting and inspection. Further, it better be a closet queen and one of the “good ones”. At that, I might offer a 10% alpha max over one made in this century.

Also keep in mind, I don’t buy basses for speculative purposes. I buy useful tools.

 

[Gustopher]

There are good and bad basses now, there were good and bad ones then too. Just because it’s old doesn’t make it have magic. Usually the opposite is true and the limitations of the era are apparent.

 

[micguy]

There are good and bad basses now, there were good and bad ones then too. Just because it’s old doesn’t make it have magic. Usually the opposite is true and the limitations of the era are apparent.

While there are good and bad basses now, there are lot more good basses in terms of percentage (and absolute numbers, as production is way up) than there were in the past. A modern Squier is a much more precisely made instrument than what Fender made in the 60's (and especially what they made in the 70's) - the cheap way to do it now (cnc machining) is also the precise way to do it. So long as the wood is stable (which isn't guaranteed, unfortunately), it's kinda hard to make a bad bass nowadays. Most of them play great out of the factory, "magic" I'll leave to another thread.

 

[GretschWretch]

The Carters are great to deal with even by email.

I'll say. I recently got from them a very well maintained Daion Savage bass with factory hardshell case for $700. because of Carter's connection with Gruhn I was expecting it to cost much more.

 

[Roger W]

To add to what some others have said, I think the QC in the current era is better than the 50s or 60s. That doesn’t mean that if I pawed through 20 1960-62 Jazz basses that I wouldn’t find a great one, but my chances are much higher, in my opinion, of finding good or even great contemporary basses.

 

[Altitude]

Seems pretty clear to me that the vintage market is really overpriced right now. I can see the appeal of spending a few tens of thousands of dollars on a collector's item bass, perhaps one owned by a retired celebrity or whatever.

But that's about exclusivity and scarcity. As goes utility and having a great instrument to use to create music, we're probably better off buying a late model instrument. They're just more consistently and better built, and for less money. And there are lots of reissues if that's your thing...

 

[Bass Butcher]

You are correct in that this and other bass player forums is generally NOT a good place to look for the type of information you would be after when considering purchasing a vintage instrument. Not that it doesn't occasionally pop up but it is going to be buried in bucket loads of opinions and bad advice based on a lack of knowledge, often going hand in hand with over the top fanboyism. 999 out of 1000 musical instrument end users are not designers, manufacturers or generally even competent techs. Like asking your mother in law for advice about your transmission because she has a driver's license.
The correct place to search for information is through google, all the info you need on any specific make and model is usually available, if you are willing to spend a little time perusing links and accepting the conclusions of people with some actual relevant background.
You shouldn't expect anything special from a vintage student model any more than you should expect top quality from a new Squire. Both had/have lower retail costs for a reason. Add to that the fact that pickup quality has come a long way from the 1950's - 1970's and a new student model is more than likely going to sound better than a 60's student model.
The monetary value on vintage and antique is based more on rarity than quality or playability. Take the early 70's Gibson SG 100, 200 and 250, for example. The worst guitars that ever came off their production line and they still fetch close to a g note, solely because of their brand name and age.
I am actually a big fan of 60's and 70's guitars and basses, including Matsumoku, Fujigen and even Tiesco on occasion. Most of the better build quality basses from that era are more suited to studio work though, primarily because of the pickup(s) specs.

 

[Leigh Semmens]

TLDNR : I've watched a few vids comparing violins and cellos of various ages and values. In a double blind test, many participants could not reliably tell the difference between the "vintage" gear and the newer stuff.. In the end, as the common catch cry here is, "play it, if it speaks to you it's worth it"