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Vintage Old Fender - I don't get it.

Its not about the tone but the scarcity of the instrument. And because certain big name players may have used the same instrument. Case in point.a 59 les Paul, they aren't that great a guitar over all, the technology wasnt available to make them as precise as guitars can be made now, the coating process they used at the time wasn't as durable as today's poly urethane but yould be lucky to find one of those under 15 grand. Because Jimi page used to play one.

It's early here and i don't have time to make this "pretty" or "PC.":hiding:

Here goes:

Until you've played a good '59LP (yes there are bad ones), you are kidding yourself. I've played dozens of originals and at least a hundred "improved modern models" and have a point of refernce. Technology? Frets have been around for almost a thousand years in metal form. Pickups haven't been improved upon much in 50 years(check out a modern strat, or pickup design in general some time). "Coatings?" Ever wonder why orchestral string instruments don't have thick shiny finishes? Do a bit of research. And of course, the South East Asian "Whatwood" that passes as mahogany today is every bit as good as that Honduran stuff, right? Forget about Eastern Maple and Brazilian rosewood. Modern wood processing techniques have been proven to produce better tone woods than ancient outdated air drying, right? No they just produce less stable wood in a more expedient and profitable manner.

Every "improvement" on Les Pauls, classic Fenders, and even those primitive upright basses for the last 50 years has only proven the original designs to be just fine and even increased their popularity.

Or, honestly, keep kidding yourself. Your loss.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion as uninformed as it may be. It's just difficult to see unbridled ignorance this early in the day.

Enjoy a superior, inexpensive, thickly finished product of advanced Chinese instrument manufacturing today. I'll be playing a candy apple red '65 P-bass that sounds and feels great to me.;)
 
Talkbass 2040: "listen to the beautiful vintage tone of my 2012 VM Squier! You kids with your made in New North Korea basses don't know what true vintage Chinese tone is!"

Talkbass 2113: Listen to the beautiful vintage tone out of my 2013 bass. You kids and your recycled landfill/plastic shopping bag basses have no idea what real wood feels like. Yeah, I know it is endangered and harvesting is forbidden, but the $14 Million US price for my P-bass was so worth it for the genuine vintage tone and feel. ;)
 
Can't remember if I posted this already but I played a 1952 Martin acoustic recently...

There's a lot of crappy Martins out there that stay in high use/circulation just because they say "Martin" on them. OTOH, Martin made, and still makes, some very very good ones also. Martin, because of the name, is one of the best examples though of mediocre instruments that never seem to get retired.

Just like all other manufacturers of good quality factory-produced instruments: you get a bell curve.
 
Every "improvement" on Les Pauls, classic Fenders, and even those primitive upright basses for the last 50 years has only proven the original designs to be just fine and even increased their popularity.

I get that old basses are cool. I don't get the point of view that American manufacturers and luthiers are somehow so stupid the only thing they've been able to do in the last 50 years is screw up Leo Fender's bass designs.

You like cool old antique stuff? More power to you--but please stop insulting our intelligence by claiming the Fender bass has been perfect and un-improvable since 1958.
 
I get that old basses are cool. I don't get the point of view that American manufacturers and luthiers are somehow so stupid the only thing they've been able to do in the last 50 years is screw up Leo Fender's bass designs.

You like cool old antique stuff? More power to you--but please stop insulting our intelligence by claiming the Fender bass has been perfect and un-improvable since 1958.

Best post ever.
 
I get that old basses are cool. I don't get the point of view that American manufacturers and luthiers are somehow so stupid the only thing they've been able to do in the last 50 years is screw up Leo Fender's bass designs.

You like cool old antique stuff? More power to you--but please stop insulting our intelligence by claiming the Fender bass has been perfect and un-improvable since 1958.

some things are fine the way they are and if changed in any way, lose the character of what they were.
if I think an old P bass is perfect the way it is and needs no improvement, your intelligence gets insulted?
that's a little odd.
 
I figure its the exact same reason(s) people lust after vintage automobiles.

Nostalgia, investments, the feel, etc...

Wrong. Your Comparing apples and oranges

Not necessarily. I work in the auto industry and love cars. My reasons for loving certain old cars ('63 split window Corvette, '68 Mustang Shelby GT350) are different from my reasons for loving certain newer cars (McLaren MP4-12C, 2014 Corvette Stingray, 2013 Camaro ZL-1, 2013 Cadillac ATS).

Exact parallel rationale for me loving late '70s Music Man basses compared to brand new Alembics, Roscoes and CallowHills.

I get that old basses are cool. I don't get the point of view that American manufacturers and luthiers are somehow so stupid the only thing they've been able to do in the last 50 years is screw up Leo Fender's bass designs.

You like cool old antique stuff? More power to you--but please stop insulting our intelligence by claiming the Fender bass has been perfect and un-improvable since 1958.

Very well stated.
 
"Vintage Old Fender"?

redundancy_hours_just_a_few_redundacy_motis-s800x600-58577-580.jpg
 
while at a music store that shall remain nameless, i saw just how weird it was to see a large collection of 50s and 60s player enjoyed fenders just hanging on the wall, and i thought perhaps without the hi contrast and supersaturated images and thoughtful comments on talkbass these don't really hold that much of a mystique for me
 
while at a music store that shall remain nameless, i saw just how weird it was to see a large collection of 50s and 60s player enjoyed fenders just hanging on the wall, and i thought perhaps without the hi contrast and supersaturated images and thoughtful comments on talkbass these don't really hold that much of a mystique for me

a music store with basses hanging on the wall, yeah man, that's weird.
 
one day i took my '79 ray to GC to A/B it with a couple of classic they had hanging on the walls.

I don't mean to bash EB and the classic line I think they look awesome and the attention to detail put in the manufacturing - things like finish, tolerances etc. is sky high.

As for tone, the two were really in different league, as much in clarity (think wood) than definition (think electronic).

Again i love the classic line and do not mean to offend anyone. Just personal experience ...
 
I get that old basses are cool. I don't get the point of view that American manufacturers and luthiers are somehow so stupid the only thing they've been able to do in the last 50 years is screw up Leo Fender's bass designs.

You like cool old antique stuff? More power to you--but please stop insulting our intelligence by claiming the Fender bass has been perfect and un-improvable since 1958.

I wasn't insulting anyone's intelligence, just calling out some ignorant statements. Ignorance does not denote inherent lack of intelligence, though it often results in what one might perceive as such.

Ignorance is a lack of awareness, not an insult.

I said the original designs were just fine, not perfect. Clearly you and other feel they are imperfect and perhaps unacceptable. OK. When I want something different from a vintage Fender, I use it. That's why I own other instruments. Most of the time, I prefer a vintage Fender.

Lots of American, and other, manufacturers do all kinds of wonderful stuff. I love my Steinberger and a number of other instruments that are mighty un-Fender like. I think guys like Mike Tobias, Greg Curbow, Ned Steinberger and Ken Smith didn't need to screw with Fender's designs and still managed to come up with some equally valid and brilliant designs. I've owned them all, still own a few and still prefer my vintage Fenders in MOST cases. In a session situation, what sounds best is what sounds best. I don't waste a cent of my clients' time arguing some "vintage is superior" point of view. One listen usually decides, and more often than not, my clients pick the vintage instruments, which is why I keep them. Also don't make the mistake of thinking vintage instruments can't make modern tones. This is up to the player and production values/techniques. The bass world doesn't end with flat wounds and old tube amps. It just feels better when it starts with a nice vintage bass, IN MY OPINION.

I still maintain that most "improvements" to Fender's vintage designs are really subjective more than objective. Badass/hi mass bridge? Some say yay, some say nay. Graphite rods? My opinion is that if the wood is properly aged and cut, the graphite is unnecessary. I have a few rock solid 50+ year old necks that bear this out. I have no doubt that some dogs were manufactured, too. I've also seen an inordinate number of modern high end graphite necks go south. In fact a highly respected Fender-ish USA manufacturer had a run of completely suck quarter sawn, graphite reinforced necks a few years back. No sign of this on their import line using flat sawn, graphite feee necks. Go figure. I've also seen plenty of recent graphite reinforced Fender necks that are just a rubbery as the worst of their 70s output. Poly finish? Great for resale, your call on tone, I think the feel is meh. I prefer nitro with all its flaws. I have a bass that I built over 30 years ago and finished in nitro in my back yard that still looks as good as any new bass. I guess modern durable coatings are better than this...Whatever.

Not insulting your intelligence, just stating my preference.:hiding:

By the way, the '65 CAR P-bass sounded lovely on the gig last night, didn't crumble into sawdust when I hit it hard, stayed in pefect tune and the neck didn't flop around wildly due to a lack of graphite. Your mileage and experience may certainly vary

Have a great weekend! I already am!:D