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Vintage Old Fender - I don't get it.

Wrong. He is not.

Wrong. He is.

Car design changes in the same model from year to year. There will never be another car built that has the same exact design, look, feel etc as a split window corvette, for example.

The design of the fender precision bass hasn't notably changed at all. The perceived value of the vintage ones must therefore be something other than the finer details of shape, looks, length, feel and sound, since those should ideally be nearly identical considering they build exact versions of those old precision basses still. So it can't be feel in the sense that the neck feels different if it's measurably identical. And so on.

It's not like with concert violins where a tiny box is built to over power a symphony orchestra in a giant hall.... While retaining sweetness and power and playability equal to or better than the finest quieter violins. That is a situation where it's a high and rare form of art to build just one, and there are some modern ones that are amazing and arguably just as good as, if slightly different from, the famous 300 year old sought after legends. But they are few and far between.

Violins of that caliber though were ALWAYS rare.... When made and now. Fender basses were ALWAYS common after initial release. Old electric solid body instruments aren't in the same league of mysterious challenges to build well as are vintage violin replicas. In fact, vintage fender basses are incredibly easy to replicate and are every day. With quality wood, pickup, and setup skills they are effectively identical to the originals.

So vintage cars? Unique in easily identifiable ways.

Vintage classical instruments? Unique in the challenges of building them well at all, let alone to the highest levels and to the design choices for great concert instruments.

Fender basses? No such similarity.... I don't buy it. Vintage fenders that are amazing can, and are, duplicated when desired. Not everyone seeks the same instrument as ideal, however.
 
I have a 1975 Fender Precision Bass (post CBS) and it sounds sooooo much better than the P basses they're putting out today. The age of the wood does contribute to tone and I believe they wrapped the pickups by hand back then. Possible advantages I suppose, but it sounds different to my ear.
 
Wrong. He is.

Car design changes in the same model from year to year. There will never be another car built that has the same exact design, look, feel etc as a split window corvette, for example.

The design of the fender precision bass hasn't notably changed at all. The perceived value of the vintage ones must therefore be something other than the finer details of shape, looks, length, feel and sound, since those should ideally be nearly identical considering they build exact versions of those old precision basses still. So it can't be feel in the sense that the neck feels different if it's measurably identical. And so on.

It's not like with concert violins where a tiny box is built to over power a symphony orchestra in a giant hall.... While retaining sweetness and power and playability equal to or better than the finest quieter violins. That is a situation where it's a high and rare form of art to build just one, and there are some modern ones that are amazing and arguably just as good as, if slightly different from, the famous 300 year old sought after legends. But they are few and far between.

Violins of that caliber though were ALWAYS rare.... When made and now. Fender basses were ALWAYS common after initial release. Old electric solid body instruments aren't in the same league of mysterious challenges to build well as are vintage violin replicas. In fact, vintage fender basses are incredibly easy to replicate and are every day. With quality wood, pickup, and setup skills they are effectively identical to the originals.

So vintage cars? Unique in easily identifiable ways.

Vintage classical instruments? Unique in the challenges of building them well at all, let alone to the highest levels and to the design choices for great concert instruments.

Fender basses? No such similarity.... I don't buy it. Vintage fenders that are amazing can, and are, duplicated when desired. Not everyone seeks the same instrument as ideal, however.

You missed NEV375's point, apparently. He mentioned nostalgia, investments, feel as potential reasons why people lust after both vintage cars and vintage Fenders. That statement is correct.
 
You missed NEV375's point, apparently. He mentioned nostalgia, investments, feel as potential reasons why people lust after both vintage cars and vintage Fenders. That statement is correct.

No I read that :-)

But it is still apples and oranges, and it's the dispute of that phrase that I'm discussing.

I agree about some of those points, but my points are important I think and haven't been pointed out yet that I can see.

Solid body electric instruments IMHO don't age gracefully... Capacitors need replacing, pots too, solder breaks, wood warps, tuners wear.

So I think that yes there are amazing vintage basses, but there are amazing modern ones too.

I've played plenty of vintage fenders.... I love some, hate some. Just like modern ones.

I do think wood quality now isn't often as good as it used to be with the number of import instruments though.
 
No I read that :-)

But it is still apples and oranges, and it's the dispute of that phrase that I'm discussing.

I agree about some of those points, but my points are important I think and haven't been pointed out yet that I can see.

Solid body electric instruments IMHO don't age gracefully... Capacitors need replacing, pots too, solder breaks, wood warps, tuners wear.

So I think that yes there are amazing vintage basses, but there are amazing modern ones too.

I've played plenty of vintage fenders.... I love some, hate some. Just like modern ones.

I do think wood quality now isn't often as good as it used to be with the number of import instruments though.

I can agree with that. To be honest, NEV made a valid point and the other guy basically discounted his point in a rather rude manner. Kind of cheesed me off, really, so I had to weigh in on it. I see your point. I also know that I have somewhat of an affection for old Fenders, because I owned one as a kid; and older cars, like a 68 Mustang, because I owned one of those as a kid. Both those items, regardless of the fact that they are apples and oranges, bring back fond memories. It's a sentimental thing.
 
Vintage fenders that are amazing can, and are, duplicated when desired.

Occasionally, yes. Not always when desired. If this were true, vintage instruments would carry no price premium. And since duplication, not replication would be possible, we could all have THE Funk Machine, or Lyle Ritz' '59 Precision that featured on "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling", an instrument I have played and have yet to see "duplicated.":hyper:

Not everyone seeks the same instrument as ideal, however.

This is the key. Maybe now we can all get along.:D
 
I can agree with that. To be honest, NEV made a valid point and the other guy basically discounted his point in a rather rude manner. Kind of cheesed me off, really, so I had to weigh in on it. I see your point. I also know that I have somewhat of an affection for old Fenders, because I owned one as a kid; and older cars, like a 68 Mustang, because I owned one of those as a kid. Both those items, regardless of the fact that they are apples and oranges, bring back fond memories. It's a sentimental thing.

you are mistaken to interpret my response as an expression of disrespect to NEV, so no need to feel cheesed off. Maybe its a cultural thing, but this side of the pond the working musicians I know who use vintage Fenders, myself included (Interestingly its nearly always a jazz, rarely see many vintage precisions over here) are concerned solely by the basses instrumental qualities. Issues such as investment, memories, nostalgia don't really figure. Its about getting the job done properly and many working musicians use vintage instruments to accomplish this task. Nothing to do with vintage cars.
 
When I bought my 1962 Jazz bass in 1975/6 (can't remember the exact date!) I didn't know I was buying a vintage bass, I bought it because I really liked the feel most of all, since then it's had many mods and sat in it's case for many years, recently rediscovered.

It's like an old friend has returned.

It's hard to describe but it just feels so damn nice to play.

I also don't bang on about it... it's just a bass guitar after all, just wood and wire.

I do feel a certain amount of pride just to have it though.

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When I bought my 1962 Jazz bass in 1975/6 (can't remember the exact date!) I didn't know I was buying a vintage bass, I bought it because I really liked the feel most of all, since then it's had many mods and sat in it's case for many years, recently rediscovered.

It's like an old friend has returned.

It's hard to describe but it just feels so damn nice to play.

I also don't bang on about it... it's just a bass guitar after all, just wood and wire.

I do feel a certain amount of pride just to have it though.

Link Removed

Thats the thing about the pre cbs jazzes I have had tried. They are just so damn nice to play. The necks are just fast, really feel like home. just wondering do you have any regrets regarding the mods?
 
Yes... I did the damage pretty soon after I'd got it... I was a yoof that didn't know any better.

I stripped off the rusted hardware - bridge, machines and pups and replaced with shiny ones. I threw the old stuff in the bin.

It was much later that I had it defretted and added the J-Retro... it was a perfect mod for DrumNBass that I was into at the time.

It gets lots of playtime now... prob cost a mint to restore though.
 
you are mistaken to interpret my response as an expression of disrespect to NEV, so no need to feel cheesed off. Maybe its a cultural thing, but this side of the pond the working musicians I know who use vintage Fenders, myself included (Interestingly its nearly always a jazz, rarely see many vintage precisions over here) are concerned solely by the basses instrumental qualities. Issues such as investment, memories, nostalgia don't really figure. Its about getting the job done properly and many working musicians use vintage instruments to accomplish this task. Nothing to do with vintage cars.

Fair enough.
 
Maybe its a cultural thing, but this side of the pond the working musicians I know who use vintage Fenders, myself included (Interestingly its nearly always a jazz, rarely see many vintage precisions over here) are concerned solely by the basses instrumental qualities. Issues such as investment, memories, nostalgia don't really figure.

Not according to the other side of the pond musicians I've encountered on this side of the pond. One even said a vintage instrument our guitarist used is better "'cause it's old."

Apparently there are worldwide victims of the vintage instrument market.
 
many
Not according to the other side of the pond musicians I've encountered on this side of the pond. One even said a vintage instrument our guitarist used is better "'cause it's old."

Apparently there are worldwide victims of the vintage instrument market.

Well the view that a vintage instrument is better purely" because its old" is with all respect nonsense, regardless of who expresses such an opinion and which side of the pond they hail from. Such a statement is odd at best and a view that cannot be taken seriously. The working musician "victims" that you refer to IME are discerning, knowledgeable, for the most part professional experienced musicians who choose the best tools for the job and many choose quality vintage fender jazzes as their instrument of choice.
 
many

Well the view that a vintage instrument is better purely" because its old" is with all respect nonsense, regardless of who expresses such an opinion and which side of the pond they hail from.

Of course it's nonsense. Any claim that a "vintage" instrument is inherently better because of it's age is nonsense.

Such a statement is odd at best and a view that cannot be taken seriously.

On the contrary, I've found that it's quite common.

The working musician "victims" that you refer to IME are discerning, knowledgeable, for the most part professional experienced musicians who choose the best tools for the job and many choose quality vintage fender jazzes as their instrument of choice.

LOL, nice try, but I'm not buying that it's some sort of noble artistic endeavor in every case. (pun intended)
 
Of course it's nonsense. Any claim that a vintage instrument is inherently better is nonsense.



On the contrary, it's quite common.



LOL, nice try, but I'm not buying that it's some sort of noble artistic endeavor in every case. (pun intended)

There are many top pros that choose vintage because for them they are the best tools for the job. This is simply a fact rather than nonsense and has little to do with a noble artistic endeavour. In over 30 years of playing I have never heard a half serious musician refer to an instrument being superior purely because "its old" so not common at all IME
 
In over 30 years of playing I have never heard a half serious musician refer to an instrument being superior purely because "its old" so not common at all IME

I've played music for nearly 50 years (from back when "vintage" instruments were either new or just used instruments) and I find it's now a fairly commonly held belief among players of all levels. In fact, it doesn't take one hand to count those I know who'll admit it's nonsense.
 

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