Vintage vs. Modern tone

[Leonid Nidis]

Base on most videos to me it looks like this:
Vintage tone=anything realy,depends what music you grew up on.
Modern tone=modern metal,djent

 

[808P123]

I should have been more clear, distortion to an engineer is not the same thing as what “distortion” means to a musician.

At the end of the day they are all just tools. Use what inspires you to play your best.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

There's no obvious line between a vintage and a modern tone but usually when I think of "vintage", I think of speakers incapable of producing verly lows and very highs which contributes to a more "vintage tone" IMO. Tube amps were common as well as flatwounds and passive basses.

On the other hand basses with extended ranges, bright strings and active electronics w/ piano-like tone played trough a full range amp with a big headroom is considered more "modern".

 

[AlexanderB]

If a musical timbre (or tone as we like to call it) is widely used, the reasons are mostly aesthetic. It comes from the existing repertoire. It sounds good to a lot of performers and listeners. It passes the Duke Ellington test. I submit that this still leaves room for a wide range of variation in "warm, midrange-y, tube-y" sounds, but also permits new sounds and even retro sounds. It's Art, not Orthography.

What is the "Duke Ellington test"? My online search gave nothing...

 

[JimmyM]

Base on most videos to me it looks like this:
Vintage tone=anything realy,depends what music you grew up on.
Modern tone=modern metal,djent

All they're doing is tuning way farther down than before. The tones themselves are nothing new.

I should have been more clear, distortion to an engineer is not the same thing as what “distortion” means to a musician.

True. But since distortion to musicians means "light overdrive-to-fuzz," I felt compelled to comment on that. Distortion to engineers means "anything that deviates from a dead clean sound at 0 db with razor flat response." People can make up their own minds what they like, but I say "blech" to that razor flat response sound. First off, the pickup(s) you use can cause wild swings in the so-called flat response thing. Second, it doesn't sound like music to me. I as a bass player am creating a sound, not reproducing it, and I don't want an engineer editorializing on it unless they just hire me to play and keep my mouth shut. And even then I don't want them editorializing on it, but what can you do on a work for hire?

 

[SmokinJoe992]

I think the term "Vintage" and "Modern" are more marketing buzz words than anything else. As far as why you may see the term vintage being thrown around a little more, I would guess that it has something to do with the average age of the target audience. I also think that there are even a lot of newer rock bands that are very popular that have a "retro" vibe to them. This could at least partially explain the popularity of "vintage" tones and "road worn" instruments both of which I am a huge fan of.

 

[Wissen]

My $.02...

"Vintage" is P bass through Ampeg. "Modern" is Sadowsky through...whatever you want. I don't ever venture into the world of Metal, so the tones in that world might as well not exist.

There are times I want the extra brightness and presence I can dial in with my Sadowsky pre-amp. There are far more times I want the thump and girth of the Ampeg SCR-DI or Q\Strip. I'm sure someone who knows what the electronics behind the knobs do could make my SBP-2 sounds like an SCR-DI and vice versa, but I know just enough to keep myself happy.

 

[hennessybass]

Check out this vid.
Great explanation of how styles change - tone - and the difference between “modern” and “vintage”

She was using a modern tone (80s & 90s) and now used a more vintage tone.

Vintage tone is hip again.
A p bass with flats is in.

Check out top guys in the biz like Michael league or Sean Hurley. They both have stories about starting with active 5/6 string Basses, but now both play a vintage P with Flats.

 

[David Jayne]

Eh I dunno. To me 'vintage' conjures up 'fat' as opposed to 'tight' low end. And possibly a prominent midrange followed by a subdued treble sound. Flats with a pick for example. Whereas a 'modern' sound might go rather deep in the lows and very high up top, and prominently so. Less happening in the middle. I like a sound which features aspects of each- a 'tight' low end, no 'sizzle' but with a decent treble if I want it. My 'P' derived basses give me just the right midrange to be heard well without needing to be loud. As cabs go I definitely prefer tighter, middy-er ones over really deep ones. Whatever floats your skirt up.

 

[40Hz]

Taking a cheap potshot here, but I have a hunch that has a connection to what many feel is 'the quintessential role of the bass guitar'. Support, don't stand out (too much), KISS. Maybe a certain sound aesthetic goes along well with that philosophy.

Form follows function. But I think you are taking a cheap potshot with that one.

A “vintage” tone - which means different things to different players, but to me means warm, round, deep but mid-focused - has nothing to do with not standing out or a KISS philosophy. Especially since there’s nothing stupid about exhibiting simplicity, good taste, and breathing space in the performance of music.

Here’s just one of many possible examples I could offer of a “vintage” tone and band where the baseline is far from self-effacing or simple:

 

[JimmyM]

My $.02...

"Vintage" is P bass through Ampeg. "Modern" is Sadowsky through...whatever you want.

Just like I said earlier...vintage vs modern...60-year-old tone vs 40 year old tone

 

[SactoBass]

I don't know what label to put on it but I like bass notes that are warm and authoritative, not brittle or burpee. Tube amps get me there most of the time, and I've found the basses I like to get me there as well.

Biiiiiiiiiiig +1

 

[BogeyBass]

"Vintage" is the obsession of old fools with money to waste and the wish to emulate idols from their teenage years. That's why manufacturers like Fender capitalise on it so much.

LOL i understand what your saying.

Then again vintage goes with each generation.

And exactly most guys, not all but many of us are usually inspired by some hero or band that actually made you want to play music. And yes artist endorsement has sold alot of gear.

When i was young, my father introduced me to music from 10 years prior to my birth, likewise music 20 years prior.
as a artist or musician, past eras always seem " cooler" more simple etc etc

Having worked with students or friends that are very much younger than me. its Ironic

alot of plain jane bands or amazing bands that were normal to us as kids or teens. Are now " vintage" they all say the same stuff we did as kids.

man i was born in the wrong era....yada yada i would have loved to live and play music back then

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Quite simply, it's the same reason some folks buy a bass (or really, any of us do), you probably hear a tone you like and want to replicate it. There are many unscientific ways to describe tone, "vintage" just happens to be one of them. I like having as many options on hand as possible

 

[40Hz]

Just like I said earlier...vintage vs modern...60-year-old tone vs 40 year old tone

Got that right.

For me “vintage” tone is a PB or JB finger-style through a B-15N fliptop. “Modern” is a Ripper or Ric with Rotosounds played with a pick into an Acoustic 360 or 370. So go figure, right?

Same words - different meanings for different players. Like the Rockman character in Nillson’s story The Point says: “You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear…you gotta open your eyes as well as your mind.”

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

I'm familiar with both... and you make a great point! The kind of tone in that video has been around for a long time, too. So maybe the labels "vintage" and "modern" are misnomers—no argument there.

So, sure, the label "vintage" might be wrong, but it's not really the label I'm reacting to, it's the tone being pursued. It seems like the overwhelming majority are pursuing that old-school kind of warm, midrange-y, tube-y sound, and I'm just kind of puzzled as to why. I'm not saying that kind of tone doesn't have it's place, and of course people want to reproduce songs where that's the bass tone, but as pointed out, there's plenty of stuff out there--some of it not exactly new--where that's not the tone.

This is 100% speculation on my part, so don’t take it too seriously, but my guess is that you hear a lot about “vintage” this and that because there are a lot of brands competing to be seen as THE “vintage” sound. When it comes to THE modern sound, at least when it comes to dirt and dirty amps, people already know Darkglass pretty much define that for this generation. Look up the gear of any modern-sounding dirt using bassist and the odds are very good that they’re using some variation on the b3k, Alpha Omega or x7 circuits. DG has a certain range of sounds that they’re known for, and they do it exceptionally well. They’re kind of hard to compete with in that space right now.

It’s ironic really, because DG also makes one of the best genuinely vintage sounding circuits on the market.

 

[Jim Carr]

What is the "Duke Ellington test"? My online search gave nothing...

“If it sounds good, it IS good.”

―Duke Ellington

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Vintage = colored by technology limitations of the era, transformers, tubes, “distortion”

Modern = HiFi what goes in is what comes out.

Most engineers I know have always strived to make the signal path as pure as possible to accurately reproduce what the musicians did.

I totally understand what you mean but I just want to add that a properly designed hi end tube amp CAN be just about as clean and hi-fi as any modern solid state amp IF used within spec (meaning not pushed into saturation). But we rarely use tube amps like that, do we? Because we loooove that dirtyness and compression, don't we? I know I do!

 

[Pings Bass]

To me, (started playing in the 80s) vintage == passive single or split coil pups, flats, tube amp, sealed cabinet, a little overdrive in the peaks, mids forward. Modern == active humbuckers, rounds, solid state, tuned/ported cabinets, horns/tweeters, clean for days, scooped/hi-fi sound. To my ear "vintage" sounds muffled on its own and can be boomy if you're not careful, but "sits in the mix" really well. "Modern" can sound fantastic by itself, but can get lost in the mix if you're not careful. Get you a bass and a rig that can do both. IME a "modern" rig can do "vintage" with the right bass and pedals, but the opposite is not true. YMMV.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

I totally understand what you mean but I just want to add that a properly designed hi end tube amp CAN be just about as clean and hi-fi as any modern solid state amp IF used within spec (meaning not pushed into saturation). But we rarely use tube amps like that, do we? Because we loooove that dirtyness and compression, don't we? I know I do!

If halfway up sounds good, turning it up ALL the way must sound BETTER!