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Double Bass VL-208s for home audio
- Thread starter Tom Baldwin
- Start date
I feel the same way. It took me years to find a cabinet that sounded
like my bass and matched up with the Walter Woods. Hopefully the Wizzy 10 is just a lighter version of what we both already have. I tried so many other cabinets it's kind of embarrassing.
Ric
like my bass and matched up with the Walter Woods. Hopefully the Wizzy 10 is just a lighter version of what we both already have. I tried so many other cabinets it's kind of embarrassing.
Ric
Ric, I think you are referring to sensitivity, which is the sound pressure level (SPL) in decibels (dB) that a speaker develops referenced to a standard input level measured at a standard distance (most commonly 1 watt @ 1 meter). Since a more sensitive speaker requires less power to develop a given SPL, that can mean more headroom. The new Wizzy 10 is considerably more sensitive than the VL-108, so it takes considerably less power to drive a Wizzy 10 to the same volume level as a VL-108.
4 ohms vs. 8 ohms: Most modern amplifiers can develop more power (typically 50 to 80 or even 100% more) into a 4 ohm load than they can into an 8 ohm load. Since there is more power potentially available, that too can mean more headroom.
Hey what thread is this, anyway?
Anybody got any more ideas on what to use to power my 208s for home stereo? Somebody suggested I just use a regular stereo receiver. Will something in the area of say 75 watts cut it?
Anybody got any more ideas on what to use to power my 208s for home stereo? Somebody suggested I just use a regular stereo receiver. Will something in the area of say 75 watts cut it?
T-Bal, Since the VL-208's are relatively high-sensitivity / high-efficiency speakers (compared to many home hi-fi speakers), you could easily power them with a typical home stereo receiver. This should be fine for average home listening levels. The amount of power you need really depends on how loud you need the playback level to be. If you want to recreate a big band in your living room, you'll need a lot of power. For quieter listening, the receiver should be fine.Hey what thread is this, anyway?
Is this possibly mixing up two specs...the sensitivity spec with the SPL spec? The Wizzy 10 (according to Bob G.'s site) has a sensitivity of 102db, which is the one comparable with the 96/98 figure.
In contrast, the 126db figure is maximum SPL. I've never seen a speake with a sensitivity spec beyond about 103db 1w/1m.
So, yes, the Wizzy 10 is still louder for a given power level than the VL108, but not nearly as massive as might be suggested.
If I'm not mistaken, the rated sensitivity of the VL-108 is 95 dB SPL for 1W @ 1M. That is 7 dB less than the Wizzy 10 (102 dB SPL 1W@1M), which means the VL-108 needs 5 times as much power as the Wizzy 10 for a given volume level (for example 500 vs 100 watts). I think most users would find that to be a fairly significant difference.
Thanks, Rob. Now I'll just need to figure out how to hook them up. I guess I can get some heavy guage wire and put a Speakon connector on one end of it?
I run my rig in stereo. QSC PLX 3402, ea, side has a VL-210 and a Yamaha 15" sub (together @ 4 ohms/1100 watts per side). When I do solo extended-range 9-string bass gigs, these handle my backing tracks and me with ease. I even do this w/o the subs (8 ohms/700 watts per side) and it sounds great. Then w/my Jazz for club cover-band Rock, I use the VL-210's together, dual mono (8 ohms/700 watts per speaker).
Well, since nobody actually wants to SELL me their VL 108s that they instead are relegating to the undignified use of a home stereo speaker (sheesh!)...I guess I might as well post a helpful note.
Very few home stereo receivers will put out the kind of watts that would really make this speaker happy. And this old design is a bit power-hungry (how many folks do you know that run 700 or 1200 watts from a Walter Woods ultra into these puppies?) so..
I'd recommend a high quality amp, but it doesn't necessarily have to be from the P.A. side of things. In fact the connections from your stereo (almost always unbalanced) will jive with an amp that was designed to amplify that kind of an input. Most PA amps are geared to balanced connections though a few do offer both kinds via neutrik all-in-one jacks.
Check out a used Bryston 3b or 4b. They're unbelieveable, bullet proof and not so expensive now that the company has released at least one or two new generations of amps. These amps were THE studio standard amp for studio monitors before the advent of powered speakers. Lots of studios still use them for mid-fields.
I think that there's one on EB+#^%$ay right now for like $300.
Bryston made and still makes two versions of the same amp, one with balanced XLR and one with unbalanced RCA connectors. Look for the latter or for some models that might have both.
If that's too pricey for you, look for an old Hafler. There's lots out there and they're good.
Also- be sure that the receiver or preamp you plan on using with a separate power amp has a "preamp out" my old Rotel does. If not, make sure that you can get the right kind of signal out of the Tape Monitor outputs before you spend any cash.
If you ever do any home recording, you'll probably be glad you bought the Bryston.
And if you want to go the Hafler route, I might have one to sell but it's only 100w per side. It'll work better than most home receivers, but, look for at least 200 watts, more could be even better.
have fun!
-Greg
Very few home stereo receivers will put out the kind of watts that would really make this speaker happy. And this old design is a bit power-hungry (how many folks do you know that run 700 or 1200 watts from a Walter Woods ultra into these puppies?) so..
I'd recommend a high quality amp, but it doesn't necessarily have to be from the P.A. side of things. In fact the connections from your stereo (almost always unbalanced) will jive with an amp that was designed to amplify that kind of an input. Most PA amps are geared to balanced connections though a few do offer both kinds via neutrik all-in-one jacks.
Check out a used Bryston 3b or 4b. They're unbelieveable, bullet proof and not so expensive now that the company has released at least one or two new generations of amps. These amps were THE studio standard amp for studio monitors before the advent of powered speakers. Lots of studios still use them for mid-fields.
I think that there's one on EB+#^%$ay right now for like $300.
Bryston made and still makes two versions of the same amp, one with balanced XLR and one with unbalanced RCA connectors. Look for the latter or for some models that might have both.
If that's too pricey for you, look for an old Hafler. There's lots out there and they're good.
Also- be sure that the receiver or preamp you plan on using with a separate power amp has a "preamp out" my old Rotel does. If not, make sure that you can get the right kind of signal out of the Tape Monitor outputs before you spend any cash.
If you ever do any home recording, you'll probably be glad you bought the Bryston.
And if you want to go the Hafler route, I might have one to sell but it's only 100w per side. It'll work better than most home receivers, but, look for at least 200 watts, more could be even better.
have fun!
-Greg
You'd be better off using the 1/4" jacks on the EA cab. The speakons are great, but I don't think that they are necessary for a home speaker- you're not moving it around so the 1/4" should be just fine, and it's much easier to solder the connections.
Thanks for all the help guys - good info. I thought that one of the features of speakons was that they didn't use a solder connection. Did I just make that up?
It also occurred to me that when amplifying bass alone at loud volumes, the wattage thing is a factor, since the low freqs really suck up the watts. However, I don't need to run these very loud for my recorded music, which is obviously full range. So perhaps I don't need to go nuts here. As long as I don't have to crank the volume, they should be Ok, right? (I've read about the dangers of having too little power).
They just sound so dang good I figured I'd get some more use out of them. Don't worry, they'll still make some gigs, too!
It also occurred to me that when amplifying bass alone at loud volumes, the wattage thing is a factor, since the low freqs really suck up the watts. However, I don't need to run these very loud for my recorded music, which is obviously full range. So perhaps I don't need to go nuts here. As long as I don't have to crank the volume, they should be Ok, right? (I've read about the dangers of having too little power).
They just sound so dang good I figured I'd get some more use out of them. Don't worry, they'll still make some gigs, too!
Speakon connectors do not require soldering. Just strip the wires, insert and tighten the set screws. Reassemble the connector and you're done. Very easy once you get the hang of it.Thanks for all the help guys - good info. I thought that one of the features of speakons was that they didn't use a solder connection. Did I just make that up?
It also occurred to me that when amplifying bass alone at loud volumes, the wattage thing is a factor, since the low freqs really suck up the watts. However, I don't need to run these very loud for my recorded music, which is obviously full range. So perhaps I don't need to go nuts here. As long as I don't have to crank the volume, they should be Ok, right? (I've read about the dangers of having too little power).
They just sound so dang good I figured I'd get some more use out of them. Don't worry, they'll still make some gigs, too!
If this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Neutrik-NL4FC-4Pole-Speakon-Cable-End?sku=335029&src=3SOSWXXB is what I need, they list several different options for wiring. How do I know which one is right?
I just got some of these [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] from Parts Express and some 16-2 power cord from the hardware store.
An easy job to put these together and costs less that the ones in the previous link.
An easy job to put these together and costs less that the ones in the previous link.
That's the ticket! Those other ones were 4-pole, hence all the confusing wiring options.
Thanks!
Rob,
Thanks for clearing that up for me. So the Wizzy 10 operating at a 4 ohm load with a significantly higher sensitivity has more headroom. Now if I could just hear one sometime.
Ric
I'm going to try an Onkyo TX-8522. It's 100W per channel. Should work ok. Meanwhile, I'll be using a 208 on my gig tomorrow...
