VT Bass DI Speaker Sim = HPF?

[MtManiac]

I’m not an audio scientist by any stretch of anyone’s imagination, so I get a bit lost in the language some folks use to describe what different filtering/EQ effects do. I’ve been reading a fair bit just on talkbass about this subject lately, and it seems like the speaker sim switch - or maybe the engaged Bite switch - on the VT Bass DI acts as a HPF. Is this the case? And if so, is it variable, and if so, using what knob?

 

[GwenOnBass]

You'll find the graphs over here

Tech 21 Club

TL;DR the cab sim rolls off frequencies steeply at 5khz. The low frequency roll off is modest IIRC.

 

[Kro]

Officially, it's engaged via bite. Per the manual:

"BITE Engaged (in position), Bite activates a presence boost and subsonic filter. This tightens up the sound when you are in distorted settings and adds definition to your notes when playing in clean settings."

As @Morrighan noted, its effect appears to be modest, and there seems to be some low-end roll off whether bite is engaged or not. Bite just seems to re-balance things with a little less relative low-end.

I actually think the best graph to show that is missing from the Tech 21 club thread, but now it's here!

Orange: baseline, with EQ set relatively flat

Teal: Bite On, Speaker Sim Off
Blue: Bite On, Speaker Sim On
Green: Bite Off, Speaker Sim On

 

[MtManiac]

Officially, it's engaged via bite. Per the manual:

"BITE Engaged (in position), Bite activates a presence boost and subsonic filter. This tightens up the sound when you are in distorted settings and adds definition to your notes when playing in clean settings."

As @Morrighan noted, its effect appears to be modest, and there seems to be some low-end roll off whether bite is engaged or not. Bite just seems to re-balance things with a little less relative low-end.

I actually think the best graph to show that is missing from the Tech 21 club thread, but now it's here!

Orange: baseline, with EQ set relatively flat

Teal: Bite On, Speaker Sim Off
Blue: Bite On, Speaker Sim On
Green: Bite Off, Speaker Sim On

Thanks - what’s the vertical axis?

I’m really just trying to determine whether I should bother investing in an HPF or not, or if the VT Bass DI is already doing it. I can’t really tell from the graphs because I’m a bit of a duh.

 

[SunnBass]

Thanks - what’s the vertical axis?

I’m really just trying to determine whether I should bother investing in an HPF or not, or if the VT Bass DI is already doing it. I can’t really tell from the graphs because I’m a bit of a duh.

Just get an HPF.
Like with most other things: trying to get something to be what it isn't, even if it's almost, will leave you without the thing you desire.

 

[Kro]

Thanks - what’s the vertical axis?

Y is dBu, or level, X is frequency. Lows start rolling off shallowly around 60Hz depending on your settings, and start dropping more around 40Hz.

I’m really just trying to determine whether I should bother investing in an HPF or not, or if the VT Bass DI is already doing it. I can’t really tell from the graphs because I’m a bit of a duh.

The VT bass does incorporate some low-end roll-off. It may or may not be enough for your needs, but there are a ton of variables including other gear you're using and personal preferences. My recommendation is to try without an additional HPF first, and then add one in if you need it. No reason to buy additional gear if you're not certain you have a need for it.

 

[dave_bass5]

Im pretty sure you need a LPF to act as a speaker sim, not a HPF. A LPF cuts some of the top end off so helps with direct recording etc. Especially useful with distortion.

 

[Kro]

Im pretty sure you need a LPF to act as a speaker sim, not a HPF.

Most speaker sims that I'm familiar with include both, sometimes along with a few peaks/valleys in between. Getting a little off topic, but if it's of interest, scroll down to the bottom of this page for some visual examples.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[dave_bass5]

Im not talking about a speaker sim as such, those are much more than just HPF/LPF's.
Im going by the Q/strip manual, where it does have both but only the LPF is flagged as any sort of speaker sim, for the reasons stated above.
Obviously neither are anywhere close to a speaker sim, they get rid of certain freq's so you get the effect of using a cab. Less brittle high end.

 

[Kro]

It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[Frank77]

Thanks - what’s the vertical axis?

I’m really just trying to determine whether I should bother investing in an HPF or not, or if the VT Bass DI is already doing it. I can’t really tell from the graphs because I’m a bit of a duh.

Before you jump on the hpf paranoia bandwagon:

1. Do you actually have a problem with excessive mud\boominess?

2. You amp might already have one built-in, so I'd check the technical documentation first.

Just food for thought.

 

[MtManiac]

Before you jump on the hpf paranoia bandwagon:

1. Do you actually have a problem with excessive mud\boominess?

2. You amp might already have one built-in, so I'd check the technical documentation first.

Just food for thought.

That’s kinda the thought process that led me here - I have a Markbass CMD121P, and a VT Bass DI. I’ve been googling to see if any of those have a HPF built in, and was coming short, finding nothing that was helpful.

There are so few people/companies who make HPF pedals for bass, like two, and they’re both TB members. So I’m also wondering if this is a legit thing I should concern myself with, or just fuggeddabowdit and carry on. I like the idea of my speakers behaving more efficiently, and having less flabbiness on low notes, and I’m EQing with a slight cut to lows, slight cut to highs, and mids flat, on both the VT Bass and my amp’s EQ. I also use a Traynor YBA200 at home, and it’s a whole other set of EQ goals, and I know it does *not* have a HPF built in.

 

[Mushroo]

Your speaker cabinets act as a HPF.

Personally I think using HPF + speaker sim + actual physical cabinets would be overkill.

 

[MtManiac]

Your speaker cabinets act as a HPF.

Personally I think using HPF + speaker sim + actual physical cabinets would be overkill.

So here’s me displaying my gross ignorance - could you please break this down for me and explain it like I’m five? :-D

BTW, I’ve been playing for 37 years, but about 35 of that has been with zero pedals whatsoever, and I know pretty much nothing about sound reinforcement.

 

[Frank77]

That’s kinda the thought process that led me here - I have a Markbass CMD121P, and a VT Bass DI. I’ve been googling to see if any of those have a HPF built in, and was coming short, finding nothing that was helpful.

There are so few people/companies who make HPF pedals for bass, like two, and they’re both TB members. So I’m also wondering if this is a legit thing I should concern myself with, or just fuggeddabowdit and carry on. I like the idea of my speakers behaving more efficiently, and having less flabbiness on low notes, and I’m EQing with a slight cut to lows, slight cut to highs, and mids flat, on both the VT Bass and my amp’s EQ. I also use a Traynor YBA200 at home, and it’s a whole other set of EQ goals, and I know it does *not* have a HPF built in.

My opinion is an unpopular one here, but personnally I think that:

- If you're amplifying an acoustic double bass, an HPF can indeed be your best friend.

- If you're amplifying a 4 or 5 string electric bass guitar in standard, non-crazy downtuning, non-extreme EQ kind of way, there's a pretty darn good chance you can fuggedabowdit.

 

[MtManiac]

My opinion is an unpopular one here, but personnally I think that:

- If you're amplifying an acoustic double bass, an HPF can indeed be your best friend.

- If you're amplifying a 4 or 5 string electric bass guitar in standard, non-crazy downtuning, non-extreme EQ kind of way, there's a pretty darn good chance you can fuggedabowdit.

Phew! Thanks, I tend to like unpopular opinions. I definitely fall into category 2, and I haven’t played upright in a couple of decades.

 

[Kro]

As @Mushroo noted, many, but not all, cabinets either limit lows by design, or just can't reproduce them because they're not capable. This is why an HPF is frequently built into speaker sims... to simulate that effect of a cabinet. While the cab-as-HPF does nothing to improve amplifier efficiency (nor to protect drivers from overexcursion), as the amp will still try and amplify those power hungry low frequencies, it will help limit them audibly and potentially help with boominess in a room.

So then, unless you're using a super capable cabinet, an HPF has two primary audible uses, both that utilize signals that may not be run through your cab: direct to FOH and direct to recording consoles.

The good news is that both consoles should have their own built in HPFs, and it's just up to the engineer to use them. The main reason for using one yourself is to take matters into your own hands - as I do when my preferences dictate it.

 

[JimmyM]

That’s kinda the thought process that led me here - I have a Markbass CMD121P, and a VT Bass DI. I’ve been googling to see if any of those have a HPF built in, and was coming short, finding nothing that was helpful.

There are so few people/companies who make HPF pedals for bass, like two, and they’re both TB members. So I’m also wondering if this is a legit thing I should concern myself with, or just fuggeddabowdit and carry on. I like the idea of my speakers behaving more efficiently, and having less flabbiness on low notes, and I’m EQing with a slight cut to lows, slight cut to highs, and mids flat, on both the VT Bass and my amp’s EQ. I also use a Traynor YBA200 at home, and it’s a whole other set of EQ goals, and I know it does *not* have a HPF built in.

I've found the VT (VT Deluxe in my case) makes a dandy HPF for my needs, which exist only in my DI line. I do have a Broughton HPF for when I'm using different pedals other than the VTD, but it's only for my DI line, as the cabs I use act as their own HPF's, as does your Markbass cab. I really like some of the folks who grossly over-recommend an HPF, but find their constant recommending it for everything under the sun very disconcerting.

 

[MtManiac]

I've found the VT (VT Deluxe in my case) makes a dandy HPF for my needs, which exist only in my DI line. I do have a Broughton HPF for when I'm using different pedals other than the VTD, but it's only for my DI line, as the cabs I use act as their own HPF's, as does your Markbass cab. I really like some of the folks who grossly over-recommend an HPF, but find their constant recommending it for everything under the sun very disconcerting.

Thanks Jimmy, and everyone else - I’ll just fuggeddabowdit.

 

[NOVAX]

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