Waking up in a Class D world.

[agedhorse]

No need to worry! Like most MI products, bass cabinets have some built in margins that make them survive brief (or even extended) abuse. The SVT-410HLF will "fart out" loudly, sharing its discomfort. You will definitely hear it, lighten up the touch a bit until the song ends, and then turn down a tad on the amp. No problems!

Or find a limiter, set it once and be done with it.
Either way, the benefits greatly outweigh the effort, IMHO.

By the way, I have tried (also gigged) some of the other cabs mentioned (including a fEarful-ish 15/6/1" cab), and I still prefer the Ampeg over any of them (for rock and blues).

I'm going to disagree here. I see enough destroyed MI speakers that it's obvious to me that many players just can't tell how close they are to damaging their speakers. ESPECIALLY if they are using any overdrive in their tone. So, no, many players can NOT definitely hear it.

By the time you are hearing problems with the speaker, the damage has begun, and it's cumulative.

IMO, Ephminus is correct in being worried, especially at that degree of overpowering potential.

 

[Wicked G]

I tried a TC Electronics amp and I though it was just OK.
The Markbass EVO1 amp has finally been released and I’m waiting to read some reviews about it.
I also went to GC to see if they had it in stock and of course they didn’t.
They are supposed to call me if it comes in.
I have only seen one recent review and it said that the overdrive sounds were digital sounding which is one of my biggest concerns.
I’m going to be patient and wait for some more reviews.
The two other amps I’m still interested in are the GK MB500 and Mesa Boogie Subway D 800 plus.
We shall see.

I hear you. It's all personal preference. I will say that while the TC BH800 is not my favorite amp to play at home alone, on the gig at loud volume that amp is very satisfying.

Much more satisfying than some other clearer sounding amps that sounded great at home but not so much on the gig. But if it's not your thing, then it is not your thing. No biggie.

 

[bucephylus]

What is MI? I used to think it was a place.

 

[AlexanderB]

I'm going to disagree here. I see enough destroyed MI speakers that it's obvious to me that many players just can't tell how close they are to damaging their speakers. ESPECIALLY if they are using any overdrive in their tone. So, no, many players can NOT definitely hear it.

By the time you are hearing problems with the speaker, the damage has begun, and it's cumulative.

IMO, Ephminus is correct in being worried, especially at that degree of overpowering potential.

Well, I clearly said that a limiter is a viable option for anyone not confident with their own judgement.

 

[Al Kraft]

What is MI? I used to think it was a place.

In the speaker world I believe it normally refers to "Musical Instrument" applications.

 

[AlexanderB]

What is MI? I used to think it was a place.

In the speaker world I believe it normally refers to "Musical Instrument" applications.

Yes.

 

[bucephylus]

In the speaker world I believe it normally refers to "Musical Instrument" applications.

Thanks. As opposed to Muzak or political speeches, I suppose.

 

[AlexanderB]

I'm going to disagree here. I see enough destroyed MI speakers that it's obvious to me that many players just can't tell how close they are to damaging their speakers. ESPECIALLY if they are using any overdrive in their tone. So, no, many players can NOT definitely hear it.

By the time you are hearing problems with the speaker, the damage has begun, and it's cumulative.

IMO, Ephminus is correct in being worried, especially at that degree of overpowering potential.

By the way, if Jimmy M says "Use your ears - if it sounds like it's gonna blow up, it probably will. Turn down!", it is all just fine. When I say the same thing, I immediately get questioned.

 

[Al Kraft]

Thanks. As opposed to Muzak or political speeches, I suppose.

I'm an engineer and was actually a little surprised (embarrassingly so) years ago when I read through some of the JBL design manuals and tech notes regarding the "use case driven" differences for speakers between MI application demands and that of say a PA or stereo system.

Without giving it much thought my first inclination would have been they are all producing musical information, how much difference could there be to a metal frame holding an electrical motor moving a stiff piece of paper. I was surprised at how many things are vitally important in the design process that I hadn't even considered.

 

[BadExample]

By the way, if Jimmy M says "Use your ears - if it sounds like it's gonna blow up, it probably will. Turn down!", it is all just fine. When I say the same thing, I immediately get questioned.

CONSPIRACY!

 

[agedhorse]

By the way, if Jimmy M says "Use your ears - if it sounds like it's gonna blow up, it probably will. Turn down!", it is all just fine. When I say the same thing, I immediately get questioned.

I never said it was ok when Jimmy mentioned it either, just that the amps used in your example were much larger, with greater potential for quicker damage.

 

[ThisBass]

Well, I clearly said that a limiter is a viable option for anyone not confident with their own judgement.

Limiters can help a little bit to get an still audible clean signal if there is not enough amp power but, limiters don't protect woofers if there is more power available than a woofer can handle.
Of course some players may believe a limiter (or compressor) may protect woofers but, its nothing but kinda (dangerous) myth.

 

[zon6c-f]

What David A. Davis said !

 

[AlexanderB]

I'm an engineer and was actually a little surprised (embarrassingly so) years ago when I read through some of the JBL design manuals and tech notes regarding the "use case driven" differences for speakers between MI application demands and that of say a PA or stereo system.

Without giving it much thought my first inclination would have been they are all producing musical information, how much difference could there be to a metal frame holding an electrical motor moving a stiff piece of paper. I was surprised at how many things are vitally important in the design process that I hadn't even considered.

Well, I am an engineer, too, and please understand that you can design audio components (especially speakers) to tolerate different levels of abuse. VC dimensions, underhang/overhang geometry, gap to coil ratio, gap tightness, suspension properties etc.
Most pro gear users prioritize performance/"user error tolerance" differently than your local pub cover band, which reflects in the products.

 

[AlexanderB]

I never said it was ok when Jimmy mentioned it either, just that the amps used in your example were much larger, with greater potential for quicker damage.

Did you see me recommend such QSC amplifiers to OP? No, did not think so... He asked what I use, and I replied.
The wimpy Lab 1000 will not harm the SVT-410HLF, as long as we are talking B-G tunings, and no octaver. I even managed to hit the clip level a few times into a single 15" EBS, loaded with a 4 Ohm Kappa 15C (Xmax 2.4mm). (Extremely "forgiving" transducer, progressively damping any over excursion beyond its tiny linear range.)

 

[AlexanderB]

Limiters can help a little bit to get an still audible clean signal if there is not enough amp power but, limiters don't protect woofers if there is more power available than a woofer can handle.
Of course some players may believe a limiter (or compressor) may protect woofers but, its nothing but kinda (dangerous) myth.

No offence, but this sounds like parroting to me. I am getting tired of explaining fairly basic stuff here, while certain "truths" seem to persist forever.

How do YOU think a limiter works? Even basic limiters will limit voltage swing. Voltage drives excursion. With the dynamic nature of electric bass signal contents, excursion damage (torn surrounds, cone creasing, coils hitting frame) is more likely than overheating, at least for multiple transducer, reflex cabs. A high pass filter and a voltage limiter will offer a fine protection for most users, and is very common.

Even some low cost PA amps offer built in power management today. There you can configure HP filtering, voltage limiting, average power limiting etc. Limiting average power sent to speaker is very useful for certain cabinet types (ie. horns, bandpass, sealed etc), where failure modes are different to bass reflex ones, and there might be little or no audible warning that the system is overdriven.

 

[AlexanderB]

CONSPIRACY!

No, rather that people are highly irrational. The exact same message will be treated very differently, depending on who the messenger is. Jimmy M is much more popular here (and I like him, too) than I am, so his words carry more credibility, even if we say the same thing.

 

[AlexanderB]

As a general comment on musicians not hearing bass reflex cabs farting out (stated by agedhorse), I really wonder if that applies to the members of Talk Bass....

The sound of coils hitting the back plate or excessive cone flexing is horrendous and totally un-musical, especially in scenarios when the amp is still operating in its clean range. It sounds nothing like tube saturation, ss-grind or any type of intentional, pleasing overdrive I can remember hearing - rather quite the opposite! I can not remember any rack effect or pedal with a setting to emulate "cone creasing" or "fart out".

Thus I find it very strange if anyone with at least a clean-ish basic tone would not immediately identify and react to that audible distress call... Especially among the members here, many characterized by curiousity, analysis, gear comparison, preparations and general concern about their tone and rigs.

 

[Ephminus]

CONSPIRACY!

No, rather that people are highly irrational. The exact same message will be treated very differently, depending on who the messenger is. Jimmy M is much more popular here (and I like him, too) than I am, so his words carry more credibility, even if we say the same thing.

All I know is that if I was on an elevator and the weight capacity was rated at 1,500 pounds and we had the weight up to 1,475 pounds...I wouldn’t let Jimmy M on the elevator.

 

[BadExample]

Relax @AlexanderB my post was a joke and no one else is on a personal attack against you. I'm pretty sure The Aged Horse has had his hand in many successful speaker designs, not to mention the decades he spent servicing and analyzing the fallen.

All I know is that if I was on an elevator and the weight capacity was rated at 1,500 pounds and we had the weight up to 1,475 pounds...I wouldn’t let Jimmy M on the elevator.

But would you let him in otherwise?