Want To Be A Musician...

[AfricanWhiteboy]

Howzit guys,

I've been playing bass for around 2 and abit years now, although I will admit I've been rather on and off about it, taking a month off there etc, and never really focusing on practising...

And, to be honest I've grown tired of being mediocare at the instrument, which I do love playing Nothing is better than slamming an awesome bass riff...

However, I have some major problems when it comes to the instrument... I simply lack the skills it seems, I can play almost any song I learn via tabs, so the physical ability is there, but it's everywhere else I'm lacking...

So to put it short...

I am a very logical person, so when I started Bass I pretty much learnt the notes in the way of, 5th fret is the next string when it's open, and the octaves are two frets and strings higher etc. So as a consequences, by looking at a fretboard I can tell the note alot faster than my more talented friends, but my ear is lacking.....

In addition, I know NOTHING of theory, so my improvisations/riff abilities seem lacking, so I would really
like to learn some scales etc, is there anything else about this that you guys would recommend me learning?

So far what I've done is to try to learn simpler songs by ear, with medium success, and learn the structure of major and minor chords, which were quite simple..I hope to engrain that in my head...

Thanks guys

 

[Ten Four One]

You're on the right track.

You should learn the major & minor scales. From the major & minor scales, you should learn how the chords are built. The chords generally exist in the context of a scale, so learning how the chords are built from the scale will help you understand why certain chords are played at certain times & that will help you figure out where to go next - if you're lost, it'll help you figure out where the song went faster.

For your ear, listening along to music is a great way to do this. Singing will really build up your ear, probably better than picking out bass lines - though that's an incredibly important skill too.

 

[mambo4]

In addition, I know NOTHING of theory, so my improvisations/riff abilities seem lacking, so I would really
like to learn some scales etc, is there anything else about this that you guys would recommend me learning?
Thanks guys

The question of how to approach theory comes up enough that a few of us have started to cut and paste a standard reply, which I did below. (thanks to JTE for adding and improving it)

In addition to the theory stuff, here are a few more things to work on (apologies if you already know/do it):

-Memorize the finger board. You say you know the notes up to the 5th fret, go for the whole 12 fret range.
- Learn all the interval shapes. You know the shape of an octave (two frets, 2 strings up), But what about a fifth, an Minor third, etc?
- Get a metronome. Accurate Timing is essential.
- Get a teacher if at all possible.
- Start Learning notation.
- Play with others as soon as possible, preferably more experienced players who can help you learn. Don't worry if you are "good enough", just dive in.
- Listen

Study Bass is an excellent resource

------------Standard How To Approach Theory Reply-----------
It is far more useful to understand chord construction than to memorize all those "Scales A and B go with chord X" formulas.

I'd say the logical progression learning music theory is this:

1.) Learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2.) Learn how basic chords are built from the major scale- e.g Major is 1,3,5, minor is 1,b3, 5, etc.
3.) Learn how to harmonize the notes of any diatonic major scale by building chords / stacking thirds.
4.) Learn arppegios/chord tones
5.) Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" (eg, I-IV-V ect) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
6.) Learn the Natural Minor scale (a/k/a Aeolian mode) and the dominant scale (a/k/a Mixolydian); And learn how these relate to the major scale (i.e.; its the V and vi mode)
7.) Understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
8.) Dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

And to expand on the first two points above...

I. Do you know the major scale- that is-
A. You know the whole-step and half-step formula for making a major scale
B. You know how to figure out the notes in any major key, using the correct enharmonics
C. You know what it sounds like- you know what the next note will sound like before you play it
D. You can find it and play it over two octaves ascending and descending in any key

II. Do you know how to build the basic chords- that is, you KNOW
A. A major chord is 1 3 5
B. A minor chord is 1 b3 5
C. A 7th chord is 1 3 5 b7
D. A minor 7 is 1 b3 5 b7
E. A major 7 is 1 3 5 7
F. A diminished chord is 1 b3 b5 bb7 (and you understand why it's called the bb7, not the 6)
G. An augmented chord is 1 3 #5

III. You understand and know the chords that come from the scale when you harmonize it- that is you KNOW not only that the chords are:
I Maj7
ii min7
iii min7
IV Maj 7
V 7
vi min7
vii min7 b5 (or half-diminished)
BUT, you know WHY!!!

IV. You can work out how to play the arpeggio over two octaves ascending and descending the chords in any key. You don't have to memorize them (heck, I hate memorization), but you can figure them out and they make sense.

V. You know how a ii V I defines a key center


Bass playing is basically a matter of knowing what to play over various chords. It may seem daunting at first, but my practical experience (bass in pop/rock) has been that I mostly use Major, Minor, and Dominant 7 related bassline patterns, usually based on chord tones and pentatonics. Even if you're playing some guitar oriented riff-rock, each riff is going to imply a chord of some kind.

"BUT HOW DO I APPLY THIS THEORY TO MY PLAYING?"
85%+ of the time, you will be going from root note to root note as the chords change. The trick is learning how to do it with a groove and feel that is stylistically appropriate to the song. The best way to reach stylistic understanding is to learn songs you like and pick them apart to see how the bassline relates to the chords. I cannot emphasize this idea enough: The answer to this common question is to LEARN AND ANALYZE BASS LINES BY THE MASTERS. Once you undertand what Jamerson (for example) did with a particular set of changes, these ideas become added to your tool set, to use, change, blend and create your own voice.
__________________
JTE & Mambo4

 

[jacofox]

While theory is important, it can sometimes be a bit overwhelming. You should learn some theory and to mix things up a bit focus on some different techniques. Mastering slapping, tapping, harmonics, three finger picking (if you like) etc can open up your ears to different sounds and styles and will give you some variety in your practice sessions

 

[AfricanWhiteboy]

Yeah, it is overwhelming slightly..But I think I'll perservere. I can see where it will really help me Giving myself some goals.

 

[your idol]

AWB..thanks for asking this and saving me the trouble.

ive been playing since i was 11...im 28 now. ive had plenty of bands and giged with plenty of them. i write my own stuff. i can listen to most stuff by ear and play it within a pretty short amount of time.now heres the kicker...if you ask me what i just did, even if it was spot on, i could not give a technical answer even recognizable by a musician.

im trying to learn the method to my madness one piece at a time as i want to persue music more actively and have always been too embarassed to ask, especially with 17 years of playing.

mambo, i really like like your cut n paste answer..i will be cutting it and pasting it on my desktop. thanks a billion

 

[jarrhead]

Take lessons is my answer.

 

[afromoose]

I think if you learn scales, harmony, etc then it's one part, but another essential part of bass is rhythm.

To be honest I think it's because so many bass players ignore this area that they sound boring. You can focus on rhythm by learning from grooves, especially the ones in the Bass Bible by Paul Westwood are very good.

I think in addition to scales and harmony the best overall way to improve your playing is through rhythm, personally. Lots of people that are more visual learners focus a lot on scales because scales are more visual, but rhythm is at the heart of what makes things sound musical.

 

[JimmyM]

While theory is important, it can sometimes be a bit overwhelming.

It's only overwhelming if you try to learn everything at once. You don't start out doing advanced trigonometry if you can't do 1st grade math equations. And that's why people get overwhelmed with theory. They try to pile it on too much instead of learning a little at a time. Learn it a little at a time and be patient with yourself.

And I agree that lessons from someone with a background in jazz and music theory is the best way to learn.

 

[slybass3000]

It's only overwhelming if you try to learn everything at once. You don't start out doing advanced trigonometry if you can't do 1st grade math equations. And that's why people get overwhelmed with theory. They try to pile it on too much instead of learning a little at a time. Learn it a little at a time and be patient with yourself.

And I agree that lessons from someone with a background in jazz and music theory is the best way to learn.

+1

I think a good teacher will help to make the connections between the theory and good bass playing.

This is what I try to do. I think knowing theory is essential for a bass player because our choice of notes have to be right with what is going on up there lol,


Sly

 

[cynical-rabbit]

I think the best thing would just be to get a good teacher and learn everything in small steps instead of being bombarded with information.

Also, I learned the fretboard the way you did. It was easier to think of everything mathematically and notice the patterns than to mindlessly memorizes.

 

[phatphillss]

Just get a teacher for a few months. They will cover basically everything mombo said.

Ive been playing 8 years and never had my head around the bass.I started lessons about 2 months ago 8 classes later I can grasp a lot of the theory that has been over my head for years.Worth every dollar.Just do it I was very undecided to before signing up to, but if you want to learn thats where to start.

this is where I get lessons,just shop for the right teacher and thats it.
Link Removed

 

[J. Crawford]

And on the subject of your ear not being too faithful.. Just put in a CD of your favorite bass player, sit down, and work through a song. Learn it piece by piece, or the whole thing, doesnt matter, but go back and do it again.. and again.. and again. Then when you have that done? Do it again on the next song.

Repeat.

 

[Stumbo]

The more time you put in, the better you'll be! At bass playing, and anything else in life. If you don't put in the time, talking about your lack of skills is a moot point. Not putting in the time and expecting your skills to be excellent is wishful thinking.

+1 on getting a teacher and coming up with a learning plan/schedule. Also check out the the links in my sig. below for some great TB info that may help you.

You don't say how old you are in your profile but I also suggest putting in as much time per day as you can (at least 15-20 hours per week) for the next year and then coming back to TB and let everyone know how it went.

Sometimes between Friday night and Sunday night I'd put in 30 hours on music or whatever other projects I'd be working on. It takes commitment and the willingness to be a hermit to progress at some things. It's a solitary pursuit as far as practice is concerned. Not everyone is up for that and that's a decision that we all have to make everyday.

 

[groooooove]

It's only overwhelming if you try to learn everything at once. You don't start out doing advanced trigonometry if you can't do 1st grade math equations. And that's why people get overwhelmed with theory. They try to pile it on too much instead of learning a little at a time. Learn it a little at a time and be patient with yourself.

And I agree that lessons from someone with a background in jazz and music theory is the best way to learn.

true, true, true.