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Wants to be payed for practices

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twinfallsbass

twinfallsbass

Jan 24, 2005
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#1
Hey all. I have been playing steady in the PHX area since ‘98, so it’s saying something when I say that this is a new one for me. I joined this “ Killers “ tribute band and we have been auditioning drummers for the last month or so. Had a drummer audition last Sunday, dude came prepared and pretty much nailed everything. Had a great conversation with him afterwords and he really liked what we were doing and wanted to be part of it. Sent him on his way and we all agreed that we should continue on with him, BL said he would call him the next day to offer him the position. Got a call from the BL the next day after he talked to this guy and he said the drummer had some “ conditions “. Come to find out, playing drums is all he does for making money and his “ conditions “ are, he wants a minimum of $150 a gig and expects to be payed $75 per practice for gas money. Like stated earlier, I have doing this a loooong time, been in many high/low profile bands and I have never heard of or expected to be payed for practicing! Many of my projects required a travel time of 45-60min and I never once felt like I should be payed to travel for practice, The $150 a gig is another thing that annoyed me, if we do not make $150 per member at a gig, tough ***** dude, we all take the time and effort per gig, and we all deserve an equal share. I expressed my concerns with BL and after a long conversation, he kind of agreed. The BL thinks that drummer is just trying to see what he can get out of us and is going to call him and express our concerns over his “ conditions “, basically calling his bluff. I think that drummer was good, but not that good. Have any of you guys/gals heard or experience this??
 
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#2
The only time I've heard of getting paid for rehearsals is when you aren't "in the band", and aren't making any of the profits from original music.

We all want to make money, but the offer is what the offer is. He can take it or not. I would assume "coming in prepared and pretty much mailing it" is the expectation for the position.
 
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#4
What were the expectations given to him about the band? This isn't uncommon at all when everyone's making money with the music, but if you're not full-time working musicians, it's not normal.

Clearly he's not your guy; he's looking for a more pro situation; he came in fully prepared as a pro does and has expectations at that level. What I would be concerned about would be why he thought that's what your band was offering him.

You'll need to keep looking.
 
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#5
Torrente Cro said:
Isn't this expected when you mix pros and amateurs?
Click to expand...

I guess by definition, he is a Pro because this is his PROfession. I consider a " Pro " being somone who is touring with major acts, not someone who just doesn't want to work a normal 8 to 5 job LOL. You speak as though you have experience with this, are you a " Pro " or " Amateur ".
 
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#6
LBS-bass said:
What were the expectations given to him about the band? This isn't uncommon at all when everyone's making money with the music, but if you're not full-time working musicians, it's not normal.

Clearly he's not your guy; he's looking for a more pro situation; he came in fully prepared as a pro does and has expectations at that level. What I would be concerned about would be why he thought that's what your band was offering him.

You'll need to keep looking.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I do not know what the band leaders first conversation pre audition was with this guy? I would assume this was not brought up because the BL was a surprised as I was when he mentioned it.
 
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#8
twinfallsbass said:
Hey all. I have been playing steady in the PHX area since ‘98, so it’s saying something when I say that this is a new one for me. I joined this “ Killers “ tribute band and we have been auditioning drummers for the last month or so. Had a drummer audition last Sunday, dude came prepared and pretty much nailed everything. Had a great conversation with him afterwords and he really liked what we were doing and wanted to be part of it. Sent him on his way and we all agreed that we should continue on with him, BL said he would call him the next day to offer him the position. Got a call from the BL the next day after he talked to this guy and he said the drummer had some “ conditions “. Come to find out, playing drums is all he does for making money and his “ conditions “ are, he wants a minimum of $150 a gig and expects to be payed $75 per practice for gas money. Like stated earlier, I have doing this a loooong time, been in many high/low profile bands and I have never heard of or expected to be payed for practicing! Many of my projects required a travel time of 45-60min and I never once felt like I should be payed to travel for practice, The $150 a gig is another thing that annoyed me, if we do not make $150 per member at a gig, tough titty dude, we all take the time and effort per gig, and we all deserve an equal share. I expressed my concerns with BL and after a long conversation, he kind of agreed. The BL thinks that drummer is just trying to see what he can get out of us and is going to call him and express our concerns over his “ conditions “, basically calling his bluff. I think that drummer was good, but not that good. Have any of you guys/gals heard or experience this??
Click to expand...

Being paid for rehearsal is unusual in cover bands, but not unheard of (see below). IMHO most people in cover bands should consider it a hobby instead of a profession.

Card carrying union musicians expect to get paid half scale for rehearsals. Never been a union man, but I have worked in the same circles where I was paid according to the union fee structure. I have also taken work in union organizations; meaning it was necessary to join the union to continue working in the organization; I declined. I believe union members can be kicked out of the union if they take work that does not conform to union scale.

Most of my experience has been in either military bands or what I call corporate bands. Corporate bands basically draw on a pool of musicians, so personnel are rotated from gig to gig. The corporate band I worked with most did not rehearse unless we had a show that had custom arrangements. I got paid half scale ($75) for those rehearsals. For normal gigs we just showed up and played (I.E. no rehearsal).

Someone who relies exclusively on music to support his/her family cannot afford to rehearse for free. Another important fact that is likely to be a problem, is they will typically take work with many different groups on a first come first serve basis, and bookings may occur many months in advance.

IMHO, this is not the right drummer for your, regardless of how well he plays and fits in. Honestly I am surprised he took the audition, and he must be sort of desperate.
 
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#9
I don't know the exact situation, but it kind of seems like a difference between practices and rehearsals and what that means. Not completely unusual to be paid for rehearsals IME, especially for working professionals. Usually they just show up at the gig (sometimes never even having met the other members previously) and nail the songs as per charts. At that level, rehearsals are definitely not the same as "practice", which is done on their own time as preparation for the performance. It sounds like the various understandings and expectations need to be clarified. :)
 
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#10
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At least the guy didn't drop it on you after joining and cause a load of headaches. I get what you're saying about "Pros" that WANT to make a living playing music and pros that actually DO make a living playing music. Either way, he doesn't sound like your man.
 
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#11
Wasnex said:
Honestly I am surprised he took the audition, and he must be sort of desperate.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised too, except that I can't tell you how many times I've shown up for auditions where a carrot was dangled in front of me that turned out to be nothing. Full rosters of booked gigs from bands that were "established" that morphed into "I have contacts and we'll get those gigs as soon as this band works up its material." That sort of thing is way too common, which is why I was curious about why the guy had those expectations. Could be a good lesson in not sweetening the pot unrealistically.
 
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#12
Couple of thoughts:
  1. Yes, paid rehearsals are a "thing." Although, someone with his level of skill, playing cover songs, how many rehearsals do you really need? Seems to me, he should be able to come in and nail the parts from the recordings. (In fact, one reason why pros charge for rehearsals, is to avoid having too many unnecessary rehearsals. Pro drummers don't want to, for example, sit around while backing vocalists try to figure out the harmonies.)
  2. No reason why everybody in the band needs to make the same amount. We aren't all paid the same at my day job, so why should that be the default assumption in a band? Seems fair and just to me, that some people would make more than others, depending on their seniority, reputation/fame, skill set, replacability, negotiating skills, etc.
 
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#14
Sounds like he's a "pro" in both the literal sense -- i.e., making a living at this -- and in the more general sense of being really good at his job (i.e., showing up to first rehearsal and "nailing" it.) He probably feels like he can (and maybe actually can) show up at the gig without any rehearsals and nail it, so if you want him to put time into rehearsals also he wants to be paid for it. If he's really that good it might be worth it; it depends on what kinds of gigs you expect to be able to get and whether they'll pay enough for you to be able to meet his demands. I'm guessing that if those are his terms, he's in high-enough demand that if you aren't willing to go along he'll find someone else who will.
 
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#16
These days, with such few paying/well paying gigs, it’s somewhat unrealistic. I know some players like this, where their egos drive this sort of thing, and they’re not necessarily as good as they think they are.
On one hand, if you ask for it, the worst that can happen is, they say no.

If he’s that good, I’d turn around and say, “ we aren’t paying for a rehearsal; you simply better nail it at the gig.”
 
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#17
These days, with such few paying/well paying gigs, it’s somewhat unrealistic. I know some players like this, where their egos drive this sort of thing, and they’re not necessarily as good as they think they are.
On one hand, if you ask for it, the worst that can happen is, they say no.

If he’s that good, I’d turn around and say, “ we aren’t paying for a rehearsal; you simply better nail it at the gig.”
 
#19
He has every right to ask for rehearsal money and an acceptable minimum amount for gigging. It doesn't mean he will get the gig though. It's too bad that musicians have become satisfied with little to no pay for their services. I don't get paid(for our rehearsals) but if I was a full time guy I'd probably ask for some kind of reimbursement. Would any other trade/profession with 10000 hours of practice/experience do anything for free?
A lot of businesses and events want musicians to play for "exposure". Open mics are similar. It must be hard to make a living as a pro musician especially if you are not teaching.
 
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#20
Beej said:
I don't know the exact situation, but it kind of seems like a difference between practices and rehearsals and what that means. Not completely unusual to be paid for rehearsals IME, especially for working professionals. Usually they just show up at the gig (sometimes never even having met the other members previously) and nail the songs as per charts. At that level, rehearsals are definitely not the same as "practice", which is done on their own time as preparation for the performance. It sounds like the various understandings and expectations need to be clarified. :)
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail on the head. Both parties here appear to be out of each other's leagues. :thumbsup:
 
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